If he can dodge Naruto, he is fast enough to deal with Naruto. I only remember Kaguya having difficulty dealing with Naruto's speed.
When did he dodge naruto? Kaguya didn't have problems with naruto, until he got angry and blitzed her. Kaguya has superior reflexes and speed to sasuke.
Naruto blocked sasukes fastest moves (amenotejikara and amateratsu). Latter was when he was even exhausted. Former was while sasuke used a decoy.
Sasuke's attributes too, have been refined via obtaining Hagoromo's chakra but not to the same extent as Naruto who has Six Paths SM but it doesn't matter since Sasuke can surmount this inferiority in physical condition via the diverse and unique abilities of his Rinnegan. He also has good ( rather excellent ) precognitive skills thanks to his EMS as seen when he could track Obito as the Ten-Tails' host.
However, only Naruto & other users of the Six Paths Senjutsu ( Hagoromo, Madara, Obito ) as well as anyone who can achieve the Shimon - Hachimon tonkou no Jin ( Guy ) can attain the zenith of superhuman physical condition.
Last edited by Rikudobito; March 14, 2015 at 09:25 AM.
But Sasuke's precognitive abilities means nothing against the much superior precognitive ablities Naruto possess. It is in the databook that Naruto's rikudou sage mode is unrivaled in terms of perception and reflexes, and Madara's much inferior sage mode was shown to react to Gai's 8th gate, so there is no attack Naruto can not react to. His speed is also clearly the greatest in the series, while Sasuke is not even top 10, he can't be, he does not has any kind of speed power up.
Naruto already beat doujutsu's reflexes when he faced Pain in taijutsu, and he hadn't even mastered his old sage mode. Remember that rinnegan is a superior sharingan, and therefore has its passive abilities. His precognitive skills were equal or superior to EMS.
No person outside of those who have the power of the Six Paths can do that. Sasuke used his raw speed alone and did a clean cut without using a single Rinnegan ability. Sakura forgot to breathe in the presence of Madara. Minato ( who was using SM meaning that his normal powers were boosted even though he's not good at it ) as well as Guy who opened the 7th gate ( meaning that his normal strength also got a lot boosted ) got easily beaten by an inferior Madara. It is possible that Madara let him do that so that he could get the chance to teleport to Kamui dimension while Sasuke was under the impression that he got him. But still, what Sasuke did was impressive here. Got to give him the credit when it's due.
Ikr and I agree. Though, I was just pointing out about Sasuke's precognitive skills which are excellent ( good if you want ) thanks to EMS but I didn't say that they could match Naruto's precognitive skills. Naruto in RSM took his sensory powers to a completely different level, I know that.Quote:
Last edited by Rikudobito; March 14, 2015 at 12:51 PM.
Sasuke is definitely one of the fastest. Outside Naruto, kaguya/Madara and 8th gai, he doesn't even have a match. I don't know where he would rank overall but he is certainly in the top 5 fastest we've seen.
Minato was the fastest among non-rikudo and he could not best Madara and obito in speed (tobirama also failed, although using diversion helped). Sasuke used his base speed to chase down and bifurcate Rikudo Madara (who had powered up with the tree). That's one of the most superior speed feats in the manga entirety. Probably only bested by Naruto blitzing Kaguya. He also has amenotejikara as well.
Was the first attack long distance? I don't know what that is, to be honest, but Amaterasu hit the Kyuubi chakra. It wasn't as much a block as it was Naruto being hit and cutting off the chakra to get rid of the flame. Unless Naruto went into Kyuubi chakra mode because he knew Amaterasu was coming.
tl;dr stat increase isn't the only important thing. Sharingan and Sasuke's own speed and reflexes allow him to keep up with Naruto, though I'm not sure to what extent.
How have Sasuke's physical attributes improved? I only know of his doujutsu being taken to a new level, but not his body. But his doujutsu, speed, and reflexes are why he can keep up with Naruto without needing to be physically better. As I said, if physical abilities matter, Sasuke would have lost to Bee as his speed and reflexes were inferior.Quote:
Sasuke actually has an excellent precognitive skills and a good battle sense. He was able to react to the Raikage's "disappearance" by adding flames to his Susano'o as he thought the Raikage wouldn't risk injury. People are underestimating Sasuke just to make Naruto win, just as how people underestimate Naruto's intelligence to make him look bad. :\
Superior reflexes and speed do matter. Remember against raikage? Without amateratsu and susano, sasuke would have been toast. He needed both and his sharingan ability couldn't do shit to help against raikage. Naruto's speed isn't always at max, but when he does push it to max, there's nothing anyone can do. His reflexes are also top level. Sasukes doujutsu didn't help him in anyway against kaguya's dimension jutsu but naruto could dodge it and a clone was even fast enough to enter the dimension with kaguya.
Also rikudo sage mode is the zenith of reflexes and speed. That is what boosts the juubi jins. Kaguya had the progenitor doujutsu and that didn't help against naruto's speed but a sharingan should do better?
If you aim for sasuke's blindside, his doujutsu can't help him there. Also, remember when sasuke charged at Madara and got knocked back by limbo which he can see? When sage mode naruto attacked Madara with FRS BD, he dodged a point-blank limbo that he couldn't see.
First attack? You mean amenotejikara? That's what sasuke space-time jutsu is called. Anyway, when sasuke ported to naruto's blindside after using a decoy, naruto could still block.Quote:
As for amateratsu, no its different. When sasuke used amateratsu on naruto, he was in base mode (no cloak).
Physical abilities do matter and sasuke did lose to bee...thrice (if you count suigetsu taking BD for them).Quote:
Sasukes sharingan couldn't keep up with bee's kenjutsu. He got cut multiple times and then stabbed with all the swords. Second time, his chest got torn out.
Sasuke's physical abilities increased though. He could cut through Madara with relative ease and clashing with naruto (in their human forms) caused a shockwave that cracked the statue. His base speed also significantly increased.
That was odd, but plot is plot.
They do, but if it weren't for the predictive ability of Sharingan, Sasuke wouldn't have survived long enough to need Susano'o. He was able to keep up with Raikage for the most part, but the Liger Bomb happened when Sasuke was up close, and Raikage used max speed to dodge Amaterasu when Sasuke was focusing on a spot. If superior reflexes and speed were the only decisive factor, then Sasuke would not have lasted as long as he did, and he wouldn't have gotten Raikage with chidori after dodging the elbow. So, superior reflexes and speed aren't everything, unless Naruto finds a way to take out Sharingan's ability to predict movement.Quote:
Didn't Madara and Tobi react to his top speed? I'm not sure about this either, but Sharingan predicts jutsu and movement based on how the muscles in the body look, while Naruto's Sage Mode allows him to be more perceptive and gives him faster reflexes. Naruto is more likely to dodge Amaterasu and Kamui than Sasuke, while both are nearly equally likely to dodge a suiton jutsu or kaaton jutsu if hand seals are used.
Like I said, Sharingan makes up for slower reflexes and speed with prediction. That's literally the only reason Sasuke survived against Bee and Raikage, because Sharingan allowed him to react based on prediction. Though actually, Sasuke wouldn't have survived against Bee if it weren't for Karin or Juugo saving his life after he got stabbed. I only remember him dodging Bee's beeline attack after being healed.
Naruto did start landing blows on Kaguya after he was pissed off, though. And, Minato inexperienced with Sharingan is more likely to dodge the Raikage without Hiraishin than Sasuke with years of experience is simply because his reflexes are superhuman. Though, I'm not sure if this analogy works because I'm not sure if Sasuke's reflexes are superior to Kaguya. Fight as I recall it indicates otherwise.Quote:
Oh, I figured. Thought it was that or the arrows. I really should reread the fight.Quote:
This is a moot point actually, as I just remembered Bee started off with kenjutsu. My bad.Quote:
Later on, his clone showed incredible speed to save bee, gai and kakashi from Madara and obito.
Limbo didn't really keep up with naruto, naruto was launching a head on Strike and Madara used limbo, the limbo clone was just a wall between naruto and Madara. Assuming it had attacked him or moved, naruto would have been able to dodge it like he did when he attacked Madara with FRS BD.
I never said superior speed was a deciding factor. I simply clarified that naruto is indeed faster and with better reflexes than sasuke when you said sasuke is superior in that category.Quote:
Also, the Sharingan's predictive ability is pretty limited. For example, it did not help sasuke predict kaguya would drag him in through the dimension even though he was looking at her and already saw her open a dimension and stick her hand inside.
Then there's sasuke being unable to predict Bee's kenjutsu. There are other examples as well. Point is, if naruto uses max speed like he did against kaguya, sasuke's sharingan predictive ability wouldn't be able to do anything about that.
Well reflexes are better than prediction. Naruto is basically on auto defense mode, so even if he didn't expect an attack, he can instantly dodge when one is carried out. Sharingan prediction simply gives the users a little time to react and most times, its not enough. That's why naruto is more likely to dodge any attack than sasuke.Quote:
Also, sage mode naruto dodged and countered 3rd raikage in his fastest mode which is on par or superior to raikage. Sasuke managed to dodge raikage when he wasn't using his fastest form. He couldn't do anything against fully charged raikage.
Yeah kaguya's reflexes are better than sasuke. Only naruto's reflexes exceeded hers and he needed his A game to bypass her own reflexes.Quote:
Lol, its not in the fight though. It was in the databook. Kaguya's dimension thing also has a similar name to that.Quote:
It is just the result of Naruto acquiring the Six Paths Senjutsu.
Six Paths SM is far far stronger than even activating both KCM and SM at the same time.
Think about this, Naruto using both KCM + SM at the same time was pretty much a considerable tier below Ten-Tails' host Obito. After acquiring Six Paths Senjutsu ( same power as that of the TT's hosts ), he made short work of TT's host Madara who was noted to have even more sage power than TT's host Obito. Eventually, Naruto grew even stronger as the fights dragged on.
Increases in stats aren't the only important things but they are far from being the only things that the Six Paths Senjutsu can offer.
They have been improved since he was able to catch up to Madara and he was even able to slice him in half on top of that. Guy who's been boosted by the 7th gate failed to scratch Madara yet Sasuke did what he couldn't in a split of a second with just pure speed and Chidori and without using any of his Rinnegan, Sharingan/EMS abilities.Quote:
In a sense though, Bee's superior physical abilities made a difference at that time. Remember how he had to be healed by Karin ? ( not taking into consideration how Jugo healed him since Bee was using a tailed beast cloak ) Bee was a more experienced fighter though.
Though, you should take into consideration that Naruto is neither Raikage nor Bee and the Naruto in this matchup is leagues above these two with both of their powers combined and that Sasuke also became infinitely ( I think this word is appropriate here :P ) stronger compared to that time. Naruto with a full set of TSB will prove to be too difficult to handle. Sasuke used a diversion and then teleported behind Naruto and actually got him with Chidori in the end ( even though I remember it was said that Naruto moved his TSB to the left in order to avoid the attack but we can clearly see lightning around Naruto indicating that he got hit ) but Naruto's durability enabled him to take the hit with no injuries at all. With more of these orbs, Sasuke's chances of hitting would be considerably slimmed.
---------- Post added at 06:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:25 PM ----------
No, they won't.
When Gai broke Madara's truthseekers they didn't regenerate. They disappeared because they were destroyed. When Kakashi teleported one away with Kamui, he didn't bring it back, because it was in another dimension and out of his range of control. And when Minato used Hiraishin to teleport what was it... 4 of them? They didn't return because as he said and as with Kakashi, they have a limited range in which they can be controlled. Once they're thrown out of range Naruto has to make his way back to them to regain them or else they're just gonna sit on the ground motionless and uncontrollable.
Hence why Hungry Ghost=no more truthseekers. Sasuke can absorb them and they'll be gone, and Sasuke will be more powerful for doing so. If that's not enough then he can simply switch places with them using Amenotejikara so that they're not nearby to defend Naruto when Sasuke attempts his attack, or use Bansho Tenin to rip them away from Naruto and throw them out of Naruto's range (perhaps burrowing them under ground or simply flying them into the stratosphere).