I am supposed to be working for my finals right now but I started to procrastinate a couple of days ago and suddenly came up with the plot hypotheses for SnK. I think it's best that I share my speculations somewhere with people or I won't be able to move on with my textbooks. Because they keep running in my brain. orz Note that I am not an avid reader of SnK, I just read it now and then when I feel like it and I have caught up to the latest chapter at this point. So I might have forgotten some details--do point out if I got something wrong.
First, let's lay out the basic facts:
-There are discrepancies between Eren's memories and reality
-The walls regardless what layer have the core structure of cystalised/hardened titans
-It's been over 800 years since humanity locks themselves up within these walls
-There exists humans with the ability of altering memories
The current timeline in SnK right now is our future. Let's do the 21st-century cliche governmental-bioweapon-going-haywire;
The giant talking monkey was the original experimental subject in some govermental military lab. The goal was to create an invincible soldier--huge, powerful, having ridiculous regenerating skill, and can be fueled by limitless power source (sunlight). Since we couldn't grow to be something like that, we could try to create armour that cover all those criteria, this is where the titan body situation comes in; by injecting some serum/artificial-virus/whatever that allows humans to activate bio-armour that covers a human's body and the control center where the real body is situated is at the nape of the armour. The incomplete experimental subject (our monkey) got out and since the genotype of the monkey is close to that of a human, it can transmit the virus/whatever (slightly mutated version) to human. Humans who came into contact with it then got infected but couldn't keep control of the body and the whole body function was overtaken by the virus/whatever and completely assimilated into the titan's body. The spreading was very fast and humanity was then almost screwed.
Let's go back to the original lab. The scientists, however, did manage to create a perfect controllable serum type.But the spreading of the virus was too fast for the humans to fight back with this new technology. Facing with hopelessness, a group of people decided to create a safe zone by sacrificing some humans whose armour could harden and whose size was in the colossal range as the wall core. They then cleaned out the area in the first wall layer and allowed refugees to move in. Afterwards, the repeated the same process and we got us Wall Maria. However they didn't have enough manpower to build even more walls so wall Maria became the last wall layer.
I think because of the guilt from creating the bio-armour technology that they decided that it was best to ban all kind of technological developments. The original group of people became the first Royal family (Reiss) and anyone who wanted to live within the wall must agree to have their memories altered. It'd then make sense why no records of the world before the wall exists and why any truth (e.g the wall itself) related to the world before the wall must be destroyed. This would also mean that some members of the royal family possess the ability of memory alteration.
It seems that once you acquire the titan ability you will lose some memories before your acquisition of the power. If Ymir's memory is true--i.e. that she was roaming about as a titan before she could regain her human form--then Eren could be older than he seems--because it also means you don't age while you are in your titan form. Then his flashback where his father injected him with some crazy serum could be his brain filling in the memory gap; i.e. that was before he started to live with his mother Carla (i.e. she is not his biological mother) and his father also had the titan ability, and he has always been wearing the key around his neck even before the breach of Wall Maria--because I can't figure out how he could meet with his father after the breach in Wall Maria without Mikasa knowing, unless her memory was altered and his father also has the memory altering ability. With this hypothesis, the biological mother of Eren could be the same girl in Historie's dream, and the same girl in Eren's momentary flashback.
Another possibility is that the serum contained the memory of a titan that the serum was originally created from--personally I think this is a bit stupid because memories are stored in external cortices...you can't put it in a freaking syringe...but since it's shounen manga...I guess it can be counted as a possible option. That's why Eren's memory got screwed up because he also had a memory of another person inside himself. And the flashback of the meeting of his dad after the fall of Wall Maria was real, and somehow this just went unnoticed by Mikasa beccause Dr Jaeger wiped her memory of that moment and he kidnapped Eren temporarily(?). And the memory that Annie had as a roaming titan was in fact the memory of the titan whose serum was extracted from.
I am guessing that the humans that possess the ability of altering other people memories, in their titan form they can command other titans to do their bidding. And Dr Jaeger's basement probably had all the experimental info for the titan armour serum.
I think there are probably humans with different faction outside the wall who view the titan form as an evolution. They probably knew the truth about the world before the wall and therefore their spies never attacked the wall and only made a breach through the gate. I mean technically if the titans in the wall were enemies of humanity, it'd be easier to destroy the wall and let all those solidified titans move about and wreck havoc. >.> Assuming that the event took place on Earth, it is most likely that there were many other surviving populations out there--one being led around by a monkey, lol. Since there is not much we know about the faction or whatever is outside the wall, it's hard to speculate any further. So I guess I will end this hypothesis here for now.
Extended explanation about the memory gap from below:
Due to this:
and this (thanks toTeiran):Quote:
I will make some modifications/additions to hypothesis 1 which gives....hypothesis v1.1!!! hahaQuote:
-The current time line of SnK is 2000 years into our future.
-They escaped scientists (which became Reiss family) escaped with bunches of people to a new continent by boats.
Edit: another fact being pointed out to me that I didn't carefully consider: titans can't move at night, but those humans that turned into titans from the villages seem to be able to as well as the giant monkey. I will have to think about this again later...
The current timeline in SnK is an alternate reality 800 years after 1900 where apparently Heisenberg, Shrodinger. and many other scientists didn't manage to come up with their crazy shit yet --lol. I personally think this version of hypothesis is lame because it has to rely on some crazy incidental mutation crap for titans to appear or some kind of crazy amazing accident to happen, which is not worth mentioning considering the fact that I should be reading my textbook right now. >.> T.T Maybe later...
SnK has nothing that bases on our reality and thus happens in a different world. lol This one gives way too many possibilities to speculate that I reject to even think of it any further. haha
These are just my happy speculations. I feel much better after I typed them down. If you read it, well...thank you for reading.
Last edited by Tranquil Melancholy; May 04, 2014 at 12:20 PM.
*FIST BUMPS VIOLENTLY*
i'm finishing high school and after this weekend i have most of the exams and this is what i'm doing.
it was interesting; bwhah, hypothesis 3 - i never wanted to go there. and i won't (now);
someone translated writing from inside covers of japanese graphic novels; it's interesting cause it tells an alternative version of their history - that the appearance of titans led humanity to the brink of extinction but most of the killing was, ironically, done by humans to humans; the wealthy and powerful, who survived the slaughterhouse, sailed to a new world, where the great walls were already prepared for them. half of the ships didn't make it to the other shore.
this isn't talked about often, but i find it insanely fascinating. just wanted to share...
my turn now!
what we know for sure:
- it was always stated that the titans appeared 107 years ago (such a precise number, funny, right?); after hopeless fights and almost total annihilation of the human race in the hands of titans, survivors closed themselves inside the walls.
- there is another society not far from the walls. people from those parts come in contact with people from the interior (they probably met in wall rose not long before castle utgart happened.)
-> ymir is connected to those people; she might originate from them
-> OR they're warrior's people. ymir knows their language because their societies are connected territorially;
- ymir's people and the warriors are engaged in a conflict
types of titans we know so far:
- warriors, the wall titan: skinless, with various abilities
- ymir's people - once powerful, now desintegrated; possibly reduced to mindless titans; look masculine, with skin; ymir has pointy ears - just like eren and the ape; the titan from ilse's notebook doesn't share ymir's characteristics but it doesn't rule out the possibility that he used to belong to that fraction
- mindless, predictable titans; mindless, deviant class - probably they're the same
- the ape titan - never seen before, at least no records remained - possibly because memories of him have been erased; might've resurfaced just recently. can create the mindless titans. they listen to him as to the highest authority; probably could be referred as their ruler
- the coordinate - has the ability to control mindless titans; unlike the ape, who commands them, the coordinate steers them. the most important piece on the board, as it seems
- unless the translation i read was damn off the mark, breaking the walls by rba indirectly led to ymir's awakening
-mportant families we know
- ackermans -----> the ressistance group or whatever they call themselves, survey corps' dark counterpart as it seems *snort*
- current rulers, the impostors
- jaegers (?)
- i was thinking a lot about eren's real age and origins, nothing made much sense, bwhah. he's just too similar to carla to assume they aren't closely related... what we have suggested is that jaeger family's ancestors inhabited those lands before the walls were built (second ending, if that could count as any clue... well, it actually makes a lot of sense for grisha to have important data in his basement as it all might be from before the walls. i seriously hope that ending is isayama winking at us not just fucking around)
- everything rby said might be bullshit cause their heads are soup containers at this point, really...
- if it isn't and eren's old as balls, he might've, fuck, even remembered his past as carla and grisha jaeger's son from long ago, all that could not be directly from before the fall of maria, i don't wanna go there.
the experiment theory is my favourite and it's the best approach i've seen so far. awesome, you *-*
@alternative reality theory
titans existed since pretty much always, it's impossible to determine whether they're a result of some experiment or whatever and their origin isn't important. what needs to be found out is why and when they started going crazy and devouring humans, and what exactly is the matter with the walls... ugh i'm too tired to piece it all together, but i like this theory and i wanna expand it.. sometime.
damn, it was fun. probably painfully far from what's to be disclosed but fun to think about... thanks ;>
Last edited by teiran; May 02, 2014 at 12:58 PM.
That ancient War was most likely the trigger for all the events happening right now.
Here goes my 2 cents.
The Walls may have been built by the Gods
Considering electricity plays a role: (Titan transformation, memory manipulation etc.) Then it could just easily be the work of the gods or something, and the Walls must be called Goddesses for a good reason.
Unless it's parallel timeline to Legend of Zelda
Now the Land were the Walls were built is called the Old Land. The Reiss were possibly one of the rulers, and may, or may not had a connection to the Gods.
The War that happened on the other Land was either set up by the Reiss, or ties to them. The Beast Titan may have been one of those old ties, seeing as as how the Titans first popped up on the Land were the War took place.
The War may have been triggered by either
-Lack of resources
-A failed Revolution
-Discovery of Titan Shifters
Holy s***, who let Bigfoot loose?!
The Titans appearance were simply a means to an end; to trap people back into the Old Land were the Reiss ruled. Surrounded by Walls, and kept in check by government, and with no means of escape. Humanity was pushed from the top of the food chain, and reduced to being mere livestock.
Ymir also mentions that there are factions whose power extends both inside and outside of the Walls, with nowhere to run from them. RBA may well be of the same faction she is mentioning, and the Beast Titan, like Ymir, is someone who left their faction due to harsh practices, and decided to try live by themselves.
Now back to the Walls. The Titans sealed within them may not even be human shifters at all, and may be a "gift" from the Goddesses. The Miner story mentions that the foundations stretches all the way to the bedrock. So Levi saying that Titans may fall from the sky, or rise from the earth could be meant literally. These beings can't be friendly, seeing as how even RBA never once considers it an option to release them, and Pastor Nick considers their existence more important than the humans who inhabit them.
Also, in the 2 ending of AoT, there were some angelic figures helping building the Walls and holding the Titans in place either by their hands or some form of Coordinate abilities.
A Coordinate may just be a part of that old power, and different people could have different Coordinate abilities. Geographia can manipulate people, Eren can manipulate Titans, and the Beast Titan can create, and control Titans, but without alerting other Shifters nearby.
What I guess RBA's group goals is, that they are sick and tired of how the the world is and want to change it for something else by using the Coordinate abilities, or some other unknown goal.
*Darn you writers block for making this take forever*
It's possible some of this could be true, and a lot of it has been discussed in the past as well. Did you read the pilot chapter? Your ideas about a "bio-armour" seem to relate to that. The beast titan is almost certainly a human shifter like the rest, though. I don't see how they would give advanced human intelligence (this titan is presented as highly intelligent) and speaking ability (which not even all titans have at all) to an ape just by turning it into a titan. The beast isn't the only one with animalistic features to it. Eren and Ymir's titans have the same pointy ears as him, for example. Ymir's "dancing titan" has shark teeth and the odd proportions (though it's consistent with other titans of her height); beastie just happened to end up really hairy.
A couple of corrections of individual details:
• The society we know lived in the walls over 100 years, not 800 years.
• The flashbacks with Eren's father in chapters 3 and 10 *definitely* took place after Maria fell. He specifically talks about Eren saving Armin and Mikasa.
(I do think it's possible Eren was a titan for a long time before Dr. Yeager did something to suppress it though)
**note: I haven't read any of the spoilers or such for the current chapter yet. If something comes up, I may update when I do...
woah, they were right, I never took notice of it before but they are really bunches of katakana.Quote:
I don't quite get this. From which record did it say that it's 107 years ago, could you show me the chapter? Because it can't be its first appearance, otherwise we won't have the Wall from 8xx years ago right? I vaguely remember this being mentioned somewhere too but I cannot remember the details. Like I say, I'm not an avid reader of SnK...otherwise I probably would have noticed the kana on the cover. hahaQuote:
You mean the faction outside the wall--the one that Berthold and Reiner belong to--right? Or do you mean the community she belonged to before she acquired the titan's power?Quote:
Yeah, that's why I said that the discrepancies between the reality and his memories might have something to do with the memory gap. I can see that didn't elaborate on this point enough now that I noticed that Kannazuki did not understand it. So let me add this in here--what I am about to explain might be too involved or confusing, so if you don't care about it, don't let me bore you and skip it:Quote:
You see, our brain keep memories in many forms--images, meaningful relations, etc.--which are linked together, we store memories with the synaptic plasticity mechanism--until there is a new discovery that can overthrow this, let's assume that it is true. lol--the long-term memory is then reinforced and we stored the memory in our cortices. But it isn't as if we remember 'everything'. Many instances our brain fabricates the memories and fills in the gap. In the case that Eren's memory was screwed up because of the external manipulations--i.e the biological acquisition of titan-armour ability--he could be mixing up his 'past' memories with the 'current' reality; that is the flashback of Dr Jaeger injecting something into him was before they even met Carla, by attempting to make it all 'logical', his brain fabricated and assimilated the 'fall of Maria' part into the memory, but the okaa-san part was real albeit not actually referring to Carla. But then we have to assume that the author knows all this as well. >.> The second alternative I gave with Ymir's memory being the screwed up can also use the memory gap mechanism to fill in as well.
btw, it took me a while to figure out what these 'RBY' & 'RBA' acronyms stand for...=_= It's Reiner, Berthold, Ymir and Annie right? lol
I hardly think that could be the case. Many 'electrical' properties in our biological processes need not involve the actual electric knowledge to be able to achieve. We have had many lucky incidents with it and it wasn't until recently that we discovered the actual mechanism that underlies the electrical quality of many biological processes. For instance, the attempt to ameliorate some neurodegenerative diseases by using electric shocks, those physicians in the past didn't actually have an idea how the electric shock managed to lessen seizures, it was just trial and error. So I don't really think we need to evoke the God hypothesis to make this work, it makes me feels that this is too much of a desperate attempt for the author. haha But if it is...well...that will be a little disappointing.Quote:
What is the pilot chapter about? I'm sorry, I'm not sure, I just read the tankobon...>.>Quote:
I am pretty sure it's over 800 years, because of their 'year' is now 850, counting from the moment people started to live in the wall. But I still need the answer about that 107-year-ago thing...I'm not sure I'm willing to re-read SnK, too much is at stake atm--lol; you know my finals and all.Quote:
-About the flashbacks, I think I failed to explain my suggestions properly so I elaborated it a little further above.
Hypothesis V1.1 >>> I now have a better supportive argument for my first hypothesis now. If you go back to the first chapter, the title says 「二千年後の君へ」'to you in 2000 years later'. I will just update it into the first post in addition to some extended explanation.
Please point out if I write anything wrong and if you discovered new facts! it's quite fun to think about it. lol
...may I pass my finals.....
Last edited by Tranquil Melancholy; May 04, 2014 at 12:31 PM.
"It happened 107 years ago, which is common knowledge.The entire Human Race, us excepted was devoured to extinction"
I believe he is referring to the original draft of chapter 1.I'll see if I can find it.Quote:
Well, to be fair we don't really have anything to go for what that means.Quote:
Some people speculate that because we have a Narrator, that what we see is the past and some sort of "Flashback", that people in 2000 years look back and found out about these occurences.
Besides, the story is inspired by a Novel which involves Time Travel and Dimensional Hopping.So who knows.
Good luck on your finals.
Last edited by Beatrice; May 04, 2014 at 11:32 AM.
There's a summary here if you want: http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...ion-ComparisonQuote:
What I'm referring to however is the talk at the beginning of the original purpose of titan bodies that don't age (and don't require finite resources to survive). The storyline now seems completely different but it's possible there will still be some overlap...
In addition to Beatrice's reference to chapter two, this thread contains a detailed timeline of historical events. Even with people's memories being erased, it's still most likely the current society of people within the walls was established about 100 years ago.Quote:
As Beatrice mentioned, this story is based on Muv Luv Alternative, a visual novel that contains not only the alternate timelines/dimensions stated, but also startling parallels to the opening circumstances of the first chapter.Quote:
Best of luck on your finals. Whenever you have time, I hope you'll keep discussing theories with us.
I'm a little confused concerning the memory wiping. Who is wiping peoples memories and to what cause?
In its simplest, it is easy to control an ignorant group of people which is why the government is so keen of preventing ordinary folks from creating technology. Anyone, outside the sphere of influence of the government, gains power by doing so.
Of course, there should be far more reasons than that. That is just one of them.
Last edited by kannazuki; May 26, 2014 at 03:26 PM.
The memory loss I presumed was from a traumatic event that blocked his memory from something painful (Eren's mother dying, Historia seeing her real mother being killed and later being branded as trash by her family, etc).
This whole talk about memories and genetics links perfectly
to genetic-memory, if his brained is rewired to control a titan body
that alone could cause amnesia but if it also contained
memories itself, remember what Grisha said about him being taught
how to use his new powers, such a flood of information will likely
do that especially if your aren't being prepared.
My problem is; if Eren ate Grisha, then that means the serum has the same effect as the ape titan: creating mindless titans. And from there, perhaps Eren ate his father to become a shifter. However, I don't see a point in grisha sacrificing his life so someone like Eren could have a power he has little to no experience with. To be honest, it seems a little silly? But who knows maybe there is a better reason. I wouldn't mind the idea I just can't accept it yet. If the serum was to awaken erens abilities, then grisha wouldn't need to be eaten. If the serum straight up made him a shifter, grisha still wouldn't need to be eaten. If the serum contained the coordinate ability at all, then Eren wouldn't have needed to eat Grisha.
As for the purpose of titans (not their creation) I believe they are being used to gain back stolen powers such as the coordinate ability, sort of a "eat everythig until you eat the right thing" kinda principle.
As for the walls and the other factions; I think either the walls are an experiment sort of thing, or they just have little importance in the world affairs. The ape titan indicated he hadn't been there in a while, and after several decades, this is the first attempt of the warrior faction doing ANYTHING to the walls, and they do it with a couple little kids. Ymir seems to have either just fled to take refuge in the walls or to get historia, but either way, she speaks of the walls as if she can just leave at any time, and go to somewhere else in mind. Makes you wonder if all the worry that the scouting legion is putting into their game is a little worthless.
Why there are titans in the walls, no clue; but I figure it could be because that's the fastest way to build a wall? Curious, their facing inwards.
At any rate, RBA could have broken the walls so titans would pour in and eat a shifter with the coordinate at which point they would capture Them and take them back to their place to have them re-eaten, likely. I just find it a little strange that they never mention their leader, or having been sent on this mission by someone. That's either very important or not at all? I'd like it confirmed that they have a leader, because that would indicate what likely is a VERY strong individual.
Genetic memory and electricity I think are all a bit much, but wouldn't be surprised if those were focal points. At any rate I dont want this to be a time leap, it's flowing so chronologically that a time leap would seem so out if place. The few things that support a time leap (that I'm aware of) are the titles, and flashbacks to geographic etc. The only time leap I would support is that this is all a flashback, and were approachig the current time.
I hypothesis that the walls will become unacceptable for humans to live in, they will be used for some sort of military purpose, in an epic attempt the main cast will learn pivotal points of information (hopefully from the basement) and will combat the problem of the titans by either trying to eliminate their source or finding an acceptable means of coexistence in which the original world can never be restored but instead have a chance to continue on with a safe opportunity to live outside the walls, possibly using the coordinate power or finding some sort of cure.
There's my two cents
Last edited by quoux; June 05, 2014 at 10:03 AM.
It's hard to tell whether or not their facing inward means anything...Quote:
They have only talked about their homeland, and Ymir talked about being killed if she went there. I don't think they want her to die, but Reiner and Bert apparently would have no say in this and no way to protect her if she followed them home. That seems to indicate there are stronger people than them there, at the very least.Quote:
Well there's more to it than that, starting from Eren's dream in the first chapter, and the fact he's crying afterwards. I think the OP in the Time Leap thread is worth reading even if you don't want to think it could be true. A long, linear setup raises the bar in the event timeline manipulation takes place in a story. If it happens, there'll have to be painstaking attention to detail. It's a great challenge for a writer to take on, imo. There's nothing inherently bad about a time travel story line. It's how it's written that makes or breaks it.Quote: