Kabuto only did anything there because he knew Tsunade froze solid at the sight of blood and once she got over it both he and Orochimaru had to haul ass out of there.
Also, you said yourself that Kabuto was Kakashi's level and we already mentioned that Kakashi is Hokage candidate, I fail to see how a crippled Tsunade besting someone with Kage potential makes her any weaker.
Kakashi without his Sharingan is already at 60% of Tsunade's level and by the time he lost Kamui he was at some 80% like Guy with the 7th Gate.
You must re-read the manga if you are assuming that Tsunade can only keep her seal active for a few minutes, she has enough chakra to heal the entire village of Konoha at once which is more people than the entire Shinobi Alliance.
She didn't fight Madara for just minutes, the five Hokage kept him busy for an entire afternoon as Madara only barged into Obito's fight when the day was already over.
Chakra wise, Tsunade got the most raw reserves of all the three Sannin because of her heritage and combined with her immense chakra control, strenght and medical prowess it becomes clear she really deserves her title as one of them.
Trying to make a case of ranged attacks is moot against a Wolverine with Hulk's strenght charging against you, this not to mention that Tsunades speed isn't bad either when compared to most top level Shinobi of this series.
What people gotta stop doing is mixing Tsunade's battle record with her actual achievements in the series.
It is simply unfair to judge her based on the likes of Pain and Madara whose Rinnegan alone made them stronger than the 5 Kages put together.
Let's see Guy fight Madara or Pain for more than 10 minutes, survive being impaled and bisected and still destroying 5 complete Susanoos without resorting to suicide techniques.
before kabuto spilled blood on tsuande he was able to dodge all her techniques, still land hits and was able to utilize his limbs fully after she pulled a shinji type technique on him. even after his nervous system had been tampered with he was able to dodge and fight on par with her, fight off naruto and shizune who is jounin level. tsunade is the weakest of the kage. as i said before, she is not versatile and only has power when it comes to healing and super strength. she is not even close to being to being one of the strongest nin in the story. she isnt even top 20
1. Tsunade did not use her Byakugou for hours. This war has barely been going on for a day, We are still in the night before Naruto's birthday remember. An hour, maybe but definitely not hours.
2. Hashirama was the Hokage because he created the Village with Madara and people didn't want Madara to be their leader. He stated this himself.
3. Kisame wasn't a match for the Sannin in question (Jiraiya) in part 1.. because Itachi told him not to. We all know Itachi was secretly protecting the leaf so I wouldn't go off his words in that situation at the start of the Manga. A lot has happened since the start and especially the time skip. Kisame was a beast!! He bested a Jinchuuriki and Raikage in smarts and skills.
4. Your rankings for Gai are soooo off. 80% Tsunade strength on the 7th gate? So you are saying Tsunade's punch is stronger than Hidoura? Even the 6th gate being at 70%? Dude, Gai's punches are so strong and fast when he has the 6th gate open that they create friction with the speed and the power compresses that and explodes into flames.. If your ranking is accurate we have never seen Tsunade at full power smh.
5. Tsunade loses all her fights, I don't mean sparring fights ect. I mean as a hokage defending her Village, she is terrible. She got dominated in the pain fight and healed everyone and slipped into a Coma. She got taught an important lesson by Madara, You're nothing compared to other shinobi. Even with the Fight with Orochimaru she was smashed and Oro was pretty much unscathed (Sneaky Bastard).
I agree she is powerful and is a great healer. But let me put it this way.
Everything you have attributed as a strength to Tsunade has been transferred to her student that has surpassed her.
That's right, Sakura.
Let that sink in for a bit.. Because if you honestly think Tsunade is the be all and end all, then you must have missed the whole scene when Naru. Sasu and Saku were all fighting as the "New Sannin" and the whole "the next generation is stronger than the previous" chat was going on. Sakura showed she was superior, Maybe not as experienced but she did help in taking on the freaking Juubi.
Let that marinate.
---------- Post added at 10:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 AM ----------
Tsunade reminds me of another over-hyped Shinobi.... Hmmm...
Oh yeah that's right, Sakura!
Except Sakura is stronger than her now, Much like how Sasuke and Naruto are stronger than the Sannin that trained them. (Without all the Indra & Ashura & Bijuu and Dojutsu)
---------- Post added at 10:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 AM ----------
I was thinking "Maybe he just loves Tsunade and it's his favourite character so he is blinded and saying silly things"
And then you stated the above...
You need to proof read your stuff. That is a massive over estimation!! You do realise the Shinobi alliance is 5 Nations worth of Shinobi & another nation of Samurai!
If what you said were true, then Tsunade could heal the entire Shinobi alliance side of the war.
"Let's see Guy fight Madara or Pain for more than 10 minutes, survive being impaled and bisected and still destroying 5 complete Susanoos without resorting to suicide techniques. " Ok let's see Tsunade fight and win. Let's see tsunade fight Kisame and win.
The burden of proof isn't on the people picking apart your claims, The burden of proof is on you! Show me a fight Tsunade has fought and won 1v1 and You have a point.
If not she is effectively a fully grown Sakura.
The village has people other than Shinobi. But I am not sure of the numbers.
So that is 6 nations worth of Shinobi and Samurai vs the number of people in konoha...
So for that to be an even number, Each family would equal to 6 people and 1 being a shinobi. For every konoha shinobi in the war there would have to be 5 family members per shinobi back at konoha. From what I can tell, there are more roots on the battlefield than at konoha.
Also when Orochimaru and co were casually walking through Konoha it was virtually empty, hey didn't diguise or anything. Hell they walked right throuh the main strip and didn't see a soul!
---------- Post added at 12:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:32 PM ----------
Just looked it up. 80,000 in the Shinobi Alliance (not including Chuunin, genin ect..)
I'd be extremely Suprised if konoha has more than that as their village population.. Since the whole Ghost konoha scene with Oro and co
According to the databooks Konoha has far more population than the other villages... so I would bet the population is greater than 80,000.
And I think the 5 great villages didn't send their entire troops/ninja in the alliance. So there's a possibility that the konoha and even the other great villages had more than 80k of village population that compose of ninjas and civilians.
You are mistaking the conceptions of strenght here.
A Hirudora is stronger than Tsunade's punches but how many of them can Guy use in a single fight?
Guy gets completely exhausted after using a single Susanoo destroyer Hirudora while Tsunade can destroy as many as five with just her basic punches that also leave craters on the ground.
Guy's 6h Gate punches so fast that it creates flames but they are still not the chakra enhanced punches which can demolish an entire block.
Also, which part of "strongest shinobi of each generation" did you failed to read?
I said that Madara and the Third Raikage were of a different era with people of vastly different strenght than the current generation.
I don't need to dig much evidence to prove that considering how Madara and Hashirama carved out an entire new ass on earth with their battle.
Tsunade is roughly on par with Jiraya and Orochimaru who were all surpassed by Minato, the strongest man of his generation.
Then came Kakashi's generation with him being the strongest Konoha Shinobi who doesn't need to resort to suicidal techniques to earn that position. Yet Kakashi stated that he wasn't a match for the Sannin at least when part I comes to mind but he still young and improving so you can make a case that he will one day be stronger than Tsunade, Jiraya or Orochimaru.
Then came Itachi's generation with him probably being the strongest Shinobi of Konoha despite forcing himself into a criminal life.
Then came Naruto's generation who surpassed the Sannin is every way possible.
Naruto surpassed Hashirama because his opponents were even worse than Madara was in the past, Sasuke all but surpassed the past Madara and nearly equaled the current one in terms of eye power and Sakura managed to master every technique Tsunade taught her at a very young age.
Sakura is a powerful Shinobi but I don't see how this makes Tsunade weaker. The only issue here is that Sakura's chakra reserves are much lower than Tsunade's simply because she doesn't come from any particularly important bloodline.
My entire point is that generations change, the levels of power between them change and that the Hokage were only the strongest of their own generation.
Even if we follow your thoughts and admit that Guy is stronger than Tsunade, he doesn't belong to her generation and was even placed as substitute Hokage on some fillers so the premise of "strongest of each generation" still holds.
At the time in part I when Tsunade became Hokage, can you really say that Guy and Kakashi were already stronger than her? Do you have evidence from part I that anyone apart from Jiraya had the power besides Tsunade to take the position of Hokage?
Kabuto, who was on par with or above Kakashi in part I became much stronger than Orochimaru was by the current time of part II so can you really say that Tsunade was weak for having trouble with him or shouldn't we say that Kabuto has always been really damn strong?
Kishimoto never put any woman on the forefront of this manga and we have rightfully called him on that but coming forth to dismiss their combat potential when taking things outside of context really doesn't help.
Arguing that anyone is weak for losing to Pain or Madara who are way above 99.9% of all the cast past and present is the same falacity as saying a concrete skyscrapper is weak because it couldn't stand a nuclear blast.
Im not going to participate in a conversation between then & now. The only time I referenced part 1 was to defend the claim against Kisame being more than capable o besting tsunade.. Which Gai has defeated time and time again.
So let's keep it to the hear and now hey?
What kind of Hokage would deny their strongest asset the chance to defeat an opponent? She always tells Naruto "No, stay here" But regardless it is ALWAYS in konoha's best interest to rely on Naruto... Always.
Naruto, Kakashi, Gai and Bee did better against Obito & Edo Madara than the 5 Kage did against Edo Madara...
There is some perspective on the Kage and their respective "Underlings".
"Even if we follow your thoughts and admit that Guy is stronger than Tsunade, he doesn't belong to her generation and was even placed as substitute Hokage on some fillers so the premise of "strongest of each generation" still holds."
Your original claim was "I'll be blunt, Tsunade is the strongest living ninja in the world if you discount Naruto, Itachi and every person who got a goddamn Rinnegan."
You have changed your argument and therefore it is invalid, You're not even talking about the same thing anymore.
So let's keep this simple,
I honestly think Gai is stronger than Tsunade, You believe the latter to be stronger.
So I'll make an arena thread discussing this, Gai can not go 8 gates and it's 1v1. Thoughts?
---------- Post added at 03:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:52 PM ----------
See what the consensus is also I catered it to exclude Gai's trump card.