All of you that keep quoting Tobi's statement of being Uchiha Madara need to stop trying to use that as counter-evidence to the Tobi = Obito theories.
I by no means believe in such theories, but I'm getting sick and tired of people using illogical references for their counterarguments. Characters are not always reliable sources of information... ESPECIALLY given Tobi's word usage when referring to himself as Madara. The identity surrounding Tobi / Madara is clearly something that is being held in somewhat of a shroud of mystery. His statement in no way disproves the idea that he could have somehow utilized Obito's body for his own means.
Again, do I believe this? No. But I'm addressing logical fallacy here.
His mask has remained on his body for good reason and when it comes off, people will either be silenced in disbelief or simply shrug at the face they expect.
Tobi being in one place while Danzou is in another is solid evidence. Opposing eyes is also relatively solid to counterargue the theories as well.
Argue in either direction all you want, but stop throwing references around just to pile them up. You make yourself look stupid by doing so.
Danzo is some old decrepit man that for a short time gained the position of 6th acting hokage. His sharingan allows him to mind control people without their knowledge. That was how he was able to become the acting 6th.
Madara also identified himself AS MADARA to KISAME!! Kisame also recognized Madara as being one of the hokages for the village he came from.
Also when Madara was having that talk with Sasuke, Madara himsefl stated only 3 other people knew the truth. Danzo, and the 3rds two advisors. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/398/04/
Not only that but when Itachi was talking to Sasuke he mentioned that Uchiha Madara was very much alive. Then Madara was telling his story and we got to see a picture of him but with a different mask on and longer hair.
Last edited by MinatoNamikaze; October 16, 2009 at 02:38 AM.
One of my dislikes of the Danzo = Madara theory is the fact it would make Madara look ridiculous, there's quite a lot that Danzo and Madara have done that would have been unnecessary and a huge waste of chapters if they were the same person.
Considering how many literary characters reveal themselves and then sustain the names and personae they introduce is part of our rub or issue. However, the answer lends evidence to partly help rule character disclosure according to the ruler. Your apparent idea is that a character reveals itself under a name/ title and other data and keeps those qualities as its permanent identity. Character disclosure seems far from bound by one conflicting rule: characters are and remain who they say they are. Any literary character's complete identity can change as its story progresses. For example, we might question Madara's identity perhaps until his story concludes, perhaps until the author finalizes how Madara should totally appear and or who that character is.
We may need strong inference at the story's end to deduct that the character is arguably a certain identity. Right now Naruto is current, on-going, and any claim that characters are who they convey is open to the author's future overriding clarification, which may include explaining that character Madara was Danzou in some strange or yet to be known way.
Last edited by ornis; October 16, 2009 at 12:06 PM.
I don't care what kind of evidence is stacked in either direction, nor do I care how logical or impossible you believe the theory is, because my response had nothing to do with its plausibility.
The point that I am making to you, as well as everyone else, is that using certain excerpts from the manga as if they are all-encompassing pieces of definitive proof against your opposition, is incredibly stupid.
Did you really not understand the example that I gave you? If Tobi's physical body is in fact Uchiha Obito's body, it does not infringe upon Tobi's statement that he is in fact Uchiha Madara. What you and even those you argue with seem to have a problem doing is communicating effectively on this point, since you seem to believe that everyone is talking about Obito actually coming back to life and becoming one of the most manipulative and effectively powerful villains in this story for absolutely no reason, which is not what such theories state.
Most, if not all of them state that Tobi is Uchiha Madara within Obito's body. I used this as my prime example in the first response to you, which you seem to have flatly ignored.
If this were the case, none of your "evidence" would disprove it (which is why I referred to them as "references" instead).
Tobi claims he is Uchiha Madara because he is. However, he is residing within Obito's body, and has been doing so for some time, which is why Kisame recognizes him just fine.
Most of the Tobi = Obito theories do not constitute that Tobi is in fact truly Obito in mind and body, but instead that it is simply Madara within Obito's body.
In either case, no matter how likely or unlikely, this manga can easily change Madara's identity to anything simply because character dialogue can not always be trusted by the audience, and right now, character dialogue is the only true piece of evidence to combat these alternate identity / alternate form theories.
For all we know at the moment, Madara could remove his mask and reveal that he is in fact a mutation of a combined Madara and Obito, much like KabutOro.
Would that be stupid? Sure it would. But this isn't about likelihoods... this is about logic. Discredit and argue the oppositional theories all you want. Just do so with "evidence" that actually contradicts the theory you're combating.
Prove obito's eye was crushed. We just saw it obscured by a boulder. If the boulder had done any significant damage to his head he'd have died on the spot. Actually that applies to his body in general. The damage was bad, but not necessarily lethal if he got help in time. Plus, it's a fantasy world. There are ways to come back from the brink of annihilation to full recovery (see sasuke or kisame when fighting kb).Quote:
Kishimoto has almost nothing (if not comletely nothing) to do with the anime. I doubt he'd give away such a huge plot point to them. Not to mention that kids sound different from adults. Obito was in his early teens. He should be in his 30s like kakashi now.Quote:
Last edited by Darth Executor; November 26, 2009 at 12:12 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Well, Tobi and Madara have a different voice from each other.Quote:
Jiraiya, Tsunade, Orochimaru, even Neji had different voices when they are kid.
Kid Neji's voice is also Shizune's.
Rin voice is also kid Tsunade.
Konohamaru changed voice for Shippuuden (which his the same as Kin from the Sound).
Sasuke's father's voice changed from episode 84 to the flashbacks of the Valley of the End.
His new voice is the same as Shino's dad.
Pain has Nidame Hokage's voice.
Minato has Kimimaro's voice.
Zetsu's voice is also Ebisu, Konohamaru's sensei.
There is no final nail here, unless you also mean that Ebisu is in fact Zetsu, that all three sannin have been replaced at some point of their life and Konohamaru is now possessed by Kin.
Edit: Oh and I forgot the most important thing, Sasuke's father is pretending to be Shino's dad, leaving his real sons kill each other off.
Re-edit: Oh, I forgot, Suigetsu has the same voice as Sai's brother.
Last edited by Gingitsune; November 26, 2009 at 02:37 PM. Reason: typo