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Anyway, I think we just completely disagree on the seals stat increase. I say that the mastering of the kyuubi's chakra and Hiraishin no Jutsu or the Shiki Fuujin, whichever one he masters (i personally think it will be both), will give him a huge advantage in seals. You could be right about his genjutsu, maybe the highest he could hope to get is average, but that would kinda equal an automatic win for Sasuke and we know that's not gonna happen. But I'll give you that one. But the same can be said about Sasuke's strength, stamina, and even taijutsu. Naruto has probably already surpassed him in all of those areas, speed may be around the same. They may currently be closer than you think.
As for seals, it is just how well you can use techniques and how well you can minimize the amt of chakra used for it. Naruto can get a 5 in that as well
2- Did sasuke earn the CS? Did he earn White snake powers? Did he earn MS? Did he earn a new way to use amaretsu? No to all of them. Everything sasuke has, he got as a freebie. Naruto actually has to work for it. The fox is something naruto has to keep in control. It takes work and effort. The fox gives him nothing but chakra, but naruto already had massive chakra amounts
3-I have no idea what you mean? J-man clearly showed superiority
What I think Naruto's stats are, backed up with what I hope is good reasoning:
Although his arsenal is relatively small, Naruto consistently uses high-level Ninjutsu during battle, and has mastered all of them (Except Summoning Technique) to the point where it’s almost unbelievable. Kakashi has stated that Naruto has mastered Kage Bunshin to a level no one has before, and his ability to develop and improve variations on the Rasengan shows that he has mastered it as well. Not to mention he’s learned Sage Mode.
When Naruto exited Sage Mode for the first time when fighting Pain, he showed that he was at least capable of handling Pain in a Taijutsu battle long enough to re-enter Sage Mode. Also, during the skirmish with the Cloud-nins, he showed he was capable of defending himself against 2 capable swordspersons using only Taijutsu.
Based on some of the points I’ve read, I would agree that Naruto has better chakra control, so he is a little better at breaking Genjutsu than he was.
During his battle with God Realm, Naruto planned multiple steps ahead in the battle, advanced battle tactics like that are not reserved for idiots.
According to the databooks, the Speed stat also encompasses reaction time (You should be able to find this statement in the Databook forums). As shown in the Cloud-nins skirmish, Naruto reacts very quickly to attacks and situations.
Seal Knowledge: 1.5/5
No change, virtually all of Naruto’s jutsu are seal-less.
...dude, you don't get it. Taijutsu, Intelligence, Strength, and Speed are all fives now. Seal Knowledge is at least a three, and Genjutsu is a 3.
5 for naruto in either genjutsu ow seal knowledge is idiotic... he doens't use any kind of genjutsu, just becouse he MIGHT (not much shure if canm but he might, specially on Sage Mode) escape from a genjutsu doens't grant him a 5 for genjutsu, never..and 5 for seal knowlege, i'm not shure how can anyone say that..when on earth has he ever shown a good knowledge of all the seals?? just becouse he knows a few doesn't make him expert...all of his techniques implie little seal use, there's only one that implies mor than 3 of 4 and it's the kuchyose no jutsu, all the others is simple chakra manipulation (rasengan and all others connected with that)..
P.S.-when he overcame nagato's chakra, he was in sage mode, and all he did was to overpower nagato's influence. it could work also against genjutsu, but, we just have to wait and see..but there's no way he deserves a 5 for genjutsu..
SuperSaiyaMan, were you talking about Sage Mode? Because I did my stats based on Base Mode Naruto.
I would say that the 'still hit even though I didn't' aspect of Sage Mode is what brings Taijutsu up to a 5. Since it's less effective without Sage Mode, I put it down to a 4, especially since we haven't seen mind-blowing Taijutsu from Base Naruto (Just really good). I'd also disagree with a 5 in Intelligence, but that's really just a matter of opinion.
Yeah, keep in mind that Jiraiya doesn't have a 5 in Taijutsu or Strength either.
Intelligence will be a five for the elaborate array of plans and backup plans he used to defeat Pain.
Frog Katas is pointless without the One hit KOs, Naruto best chance at a 5 in Taijust is defintely in Sage Mode which is still debatable.
Intelligence won't be a 5 for a very long time, Naruto plan work aginst a very weaken Pain
Great point, and Jiraiya has 40 years on Naruto aswell.Originally Posted by RandomShikafan
Sasuke might not have acquired the CS through training but had the guy not been properly fit for it he would have never even survived the process. In all fairness, just getting the CS almost cost him his live and had to be thrown into a comma to get the second level. It's not like getting either level of the CS required no sacrifice on sasuke's part. Sasuke had to risk his live for the CS(which to top it all damaged his body and deprived him of free will) . I would think naruto got the better deal lol. seriously, just 2 weeks of training with a froggy and naruto gets improved chakra control, stamina, strength and speed.... At the very least sasuke had to put his life on the line(willingly or unwillingly lol). IMHO it is kinda unfair to say sasuke has "freebies" given that every "freebie" he has comes at the cost of his health, live, free will, brother and family.
As for sharingan and MS, I do not think those are things which can be contextually treated as normal jutsu. He was born with those(granted MS evolution had to be triggered though), those are his birthrights. IMHO sharingan or MS should be treated pretty much in the same context as breathing or walking. You just can't put sasuke down for that in any way(its not like sasuke's dad sealed an entirely different dude with infinite amounts of chakra which can also heal lethal wounds instantly inside of sasuke right?).
I simply meant that both jiraiya and orochimaru had 35.5 in their stats. That is all.
Sasuke has considerably more growth potential in strength and stamina than what naruto has in genjutsu and seals though. In any case, without using HM naruto would still be considerably slower than sasuke and at about the same strength level(naruto has never shown anything that suggests he is any better at the strength thing than sasuke; except obviously HM lol).
This is how I think naruto and sasuke compare:
Normal naruto vs sasuke
Sasuke is a level above naruto.
HM naruto vs sasuke
Naruto would destroy sasuke in a direct confrontation with no problem whatsoever but might have trouble with MS.
Last edited by kkck; October 22, 2009 at 10:33 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Its closer to fact then logic. You give Naruto way to much credit considering all the handicaps in this battle.