What??? If I remember correctly, the last time we saw Kaidoh, Tezuka had to scrape him off the court. Yet, the last time we saw Kirihara, he got an absurd "Angel mode" and won the match. Kirihara is still improving at the same rate he always did. Just because he lost to Yanagi (something that would have ALWAYS happened in PoT1, no matter which season), does not mean anything. 95% of PoT would have lost to Yanagi. The only exceptions being Nationals Echizen, Yukimura, Sanada, Nationals Tezuka, and Inui. I just hate this notion of Kirihara somehow being "bad" now that he lost to Yanagi. It is just a bad argument.Quote:
Kaidoh get beat by a stronger player. Kirihara got beat, play again, and all he get is crappy angel mode which is ONLY confirm to be devil mode with no danger to his life. It IS NOT mention to have a faster speed or anything. Kaidoh have yet to play again after his lose. And he undergo mountain training. And from what we've seen, people who undergo mountain training have faster growth pace.
He's also confirm to be Seigaku captain, so he IS guarantee to surpass Momoshiro at some point. And that Momoshiro right now is pretty much confirm to solo 6-0 no 16 and 17 even when they tag team on him, since Kenya is pretty worthless in that fight. That's crazy strong. Kaidoh isn't a character that one should be view as "not being in the same league". He's obviously going to be very strong.
@Fayte, you epically fail.
Angel Mode ONLY works when with Shiraishi. We mention this to you contstantly.
Therefore, Kirihara and Kaidoh are yet to improve.
Kirihara losing to Yanagi is NOT my argument.
You say 95% would lose to Yanagi? You are a joke.
Tachibana, Chitose, Fuji, Niou would defeat him. Undoubtably. Tooyama would beat him. Atobe would beat him.
I usually respect your opinions but for this time your completely out of it.
Debatable. Atobe improved just as much as anyone from the mountain training, and he wasn't there.Quote:
I'm not saying Kaidoh isn't strong, I'm saying in light of the other characters, Kaidoh is not even top 20 material. Kirihara is higher on the tier list.Quote:
You are missing the point entirely. Kirihara played a match, and he improved. End of story. It does not matter if it is only with Shiraishi or not. The point is he played a match, improved during the match, and won. Not difficult to understand.Originally Posted by Airgrimes
Wrong, see above.Quote:
Never said it was.Quote:
Everything you just said in this quote is an assumption and your opinion based upon nothing. You explained nothing as to how either of these people would win against Yanagi, yet you say I am a joke for claiming otherwise? I could just turn and say Yanagi would beat all of those people and we would have the same baseless argument.Quote:
Last edited by Fayte; July 02, 2012 at 10:57 AM.
I dont use PoT1 VS PoT ever.
Kirihara and Kaidoh have shown us ZERO improvement in Singles since PoT Part I.
So of course we go by what we know of them.
No Angel mode for Kirihara and also, Shiraishi was the star of that match. He changed the game.
Listen, I understand what you're saying and I understand Yukimura's skills as a player, but you can't compare him in PoT to SPoT. Yukimura could return Super Mountain Blah Blah easily because he was the final boss. Konomi made him like that so the readers would think, "Wow, nothing can get past this guy." But now, this is SPoT, and Duke of all heads is one of the Genius 10. GENIUS, as in, his 'power' isn't comparable to any other junior-high power player we've seen in the series except Akutsu, because everyone except him had to work hard for their power. Konomi threw us ten genius players all at once, similarly to how he gave us Rikkai Dai Fuzoku, a team full of six national-leveled players, all at once. For all we know, Duke's insane power could be something he was born with.
I don't understand why you all still maintain this vision of an invincible super god Yukimura, as we've seen in SPoT that's clearly not the case as even Yukimura has been caught off-guard here and there.
Last edited by -Ken-; July 02, 2012 at 12:35 PM.
Well, I'm not saying Yukimura, because of his role in POT, is invincible, I can say a few players that would defeat him. However, even if he isn't the final boss anymore, his superiority as one of the best MS is still present in the series.
Still, those GENIUS 10 are older than the MS, also, being older means that they have more experience and they fought around the world, if Yukimura had that much experience, he would be way stronger than he is right now, believe me. Duke's power sure is natural, just look how big is the guy. Gin was blown away with just a super forehand of him, and returned his last Hadoukyuu like it was a normal shot. Yukimura for sure would have problems against that guy, but I'm just saying he'll find somehow to return his shots and claw his way back.
Yukimura's base tennis is way above than the base tennis of MS (pre-mountain training). Yukimura also improved his skills in this camp, at least he should be able to give a close match to a top 5 player, and in a three set match, he would evolve somehow. He's a tennis player and he can lose, much like Oni, Tokugawa, and any other MS. And the first one who will defeat Yukimura in Shin Pot will be Sanada, he needs his revenge.
Last edited by LetalHawk; July 02, 2012 at 06:20 PM.
Yukimura was caught off-guard.? So far in the series, he just curb stomped any non PoP. And as of now, nobody did beat PoP, as far as we know.
Kawamura was awful. He changed that completely. His limit is now the same as Ishida Gin's, he can also freely hit the 108 degrees of Hadoukyuu like Ishida Gin. They are equal now. He broke a pattern.
Fuji was possibly weaker than Kirihara. Things have totally changed since then. Fuji > Kirihara without a doubt.
Niou was never known as the amazing Singles player. He improved way beyond Yanagi and Kirihara. He broke the pattern.
Konomi doesnt allow fans to familiarise themselves with players improvement rates really.
He might just break the patter JUST coz he is from Seigaku.
Remember Kirihara > Momoshiro? Not anymore since Kirihara is gonna die against Black Jack Knife after awhile. His Strength stat isnt anything to marvel over. It finished two HSers Taira and Hara from just Momoshiro.
Improvement rates changed.
I actually agreed with your point, but coz it came from you, I went over things and noticed things have completely changed since then haha.
No hard feelings hahaa.
---------- Post added at 05:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:23 PM ----------
Saying a statement like Yanagi can overcome those three is just careless lol.
It is said in the databooks that SKnK is the height of Data Tennis. So what good is Data tennis against the height of the Sub Play Style??
Tezuka and Chitose completely have one over Yanagi there.
Data Tennis doesnt work on Fuji. This is a ridiculous Plot Armor that Fuji has that I dont like. But it is what it is.
Prediction is eliminated as he is able to use Closed Eye which eliminates Predictions like In.
Combined with Cord Ball and the other counters, it means Yanagi will never know which shot is coming.
I dont like it either but I everything I said there is Canon.
Tooyama has Super Megaton Deluxe... You see Yanagi returning it bro?
Tooyama has Super Stamina and Super Strength and Super Speed. He is the strongest on Shitenhouji apparently.
Meaning Tooyama > Shiraishi and Chitose. You REALLY think Yanagi > Shiraishi?
Remember Chitose has the best of Data Tennis and Tooyama is STILL acknowledged as the strongest of the school.
So really Tooyama > Yanagi is just plain simple unless you can contest what is canon.
Atobe has Atobe Kingdom. Yanagi is not the great he originally was. You see Yanagi taking out Atobe Kingdom when it took points off Irie??
NO WAY BRO!!!
Now for Tachibana... Perhaps you have a point. I cant prove Tachibana > Yanagi...
---------- Post added at 06:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:32 PM ----------
To not be able to acknowledge that he is amongst the best means your not reading the story right.
I can name FEW players with the ability to win against him. Tezuka, Sanada, Ryoma, Byoudouin, Tanegashima, possibly Irie, possibly Tokugawa and Ryoga (MUST HAVE SOME PLOT POWER STRENGTH IN HIM)
we aint seen much of those in bold but they are highly ranked for obvious reasons. Byoudouin also put Tokugawa to the floor.(Yes I know in specific circumstances).
Now besides these guys, who do you think could take games from Yukimura?
Just the fact that Duke is a Power Player kinda tells us that he has limits. What about any player with great technique to hit the ball far away from him consistently? There are probably quite a few MSers capable.
And can return Super Megaton Deluxe with his jacket on his shoulders? Yukimura > Duke isnt out there at all. We dont know if its true but it isnt far-fetched.
You have to stop going on like somebody is saying a player is the best ever when nobody said that at all.
You did that when we were discussing Fuji and it made you look odd when nobody implied such a thing.
Shaken up by Black Aura and TMnK.
I think its clear that Black Aura is going to be a close parallel to TMnK. We know how beast TMnK is.
Can you erm... Name me some players that WONT be shaken by TMnK shots??
Coz they are the ONLY shots to ever shake Yukimura and the only points we have actually witnessed him concede.
Black Aura neatly busted the net open aswell. It wasnt just high-speed shots. Since he eventually rallied with TMnK.
(Yeah Ryoma may have had it slowed down at that specific point, or not).
He made him sweat against Fuwa. He is a normal player that can lose now. He has removed the final boss feeling from Yuki carefully.
He has brought in Byoudouin who screams final boss.
However the abilities he had from Part I obviously carry on to Part II like EVERY OTHER MSer.
How is Akutsu comparable to Duke's??
Also, it is said that Super Megaton blah blah is more dangerous than 108 Degrees Hadoukyuu.
You compare Genius 10 with Rikkai. In Rikkai currently, who is of the best players currently? Just Yuki, Sanada and Niou. Just 3/8 lol. Not a good example.
So what if Duke was born with Power? As long as the Technique is their, Power is never everything in PoT.
When the Technique is higher, no matter the power, it will be returned. That's how it is in this series.
Example: Byoudouin's casual serve shattered a wall, Ryoga returned it coz he has good technique.
Caught off-guard?? Here and there??
He lost to TMnK. He lost ONE point to Black Aura.
Can somebody please chip in and explain to me where any player could go wrong to only concede points in the series to these two amazing techniques??
List me 10 guys you can confirm can beat Yuki. You most definetely cannot. Ive tried. Asked this question before never got it.
Yukimura is that great. Amongst the best, but by no means THE best.
---------- Post added at 06:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:05 PM ----------
Once Niou mastered becoming any School Player, that was it. He became the best Doubles player in the series.
Did we really see Oishi improve? We saw Oishi Territory AGAIN... Nothing new from the guy.
Don't have time to reply to everything.
I mean in terms of role in the story. Before, Seigaku only played schools with maybe one or two national-leveled players plus a genius here and there. But, Rikkai was different; Rikkai Dai Fuzoku's regulars were all said to be six national-leveled players. That's how the Genius 10 is coming off right now in SPOT. The U-17 Courts had some tough guys here and there, but the middle schoolers were always able to pull through. Even Court 1's 11-20 were defeated by 19 middle schoolers. But, the Genius 10 are clearly a different matter. Our middle schoolers have to deal with 10 geniuses who has skills surpassing anything we've ever seen thus far.Quote:
Konomi has never really shown Power Players in a good light.
He has always hinted at Technique being more important hence, Tezuka, Sanada, Yukimura, Ryoma never really relying purely on power.
Because they are all-rounders. Don't forget, this is tennis. Each playstyle has it's own traits.Quote:
It could be that like Tohno Atsukyo, he hits a special shot that is powerful.
Like how Sanada Genichiro and Tairai Yoshiyuki arent Power Players, yet they hit racket destroying shots such as Rai and Bakyuun, Byoudouin may just have a devestating shot but not even be a Power Player but be an All-Rounder.
For the Specific Power-only guys, has Kawamura ever won elegantly? Duke is the first neat win weve had. Ever. For the Power guys, so I definetely accept he is amazing but, im just certain Technique > Power.
Then again he is No.3 and Oni is No.5 for a reason I guess...