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The other option, it also means yes.
I've noticed a lot of talk in the Chapter Discussion thread about how strong the VZ's are lately, not without good reason of course since they finally appeared just a few chapters ago, and I figured why not make a thread just for that since I didn't see any other threads about it.
So then just how strong are the VZ's? Have all the VC's gained Bankai or not? And the Captain Vizards Shunsui level+ or are they weaker? Will they destroy the Espada or is it the other way around? Is Shinji Yama-ji/Aizen level or is he a lesser force?
Whatever the case try to keep discussions on the matter here.
Last edited by Onomatopoeia; July 14, 2009 at 12:23 AM.
They won't be fodder, that's for sure. Right now I'm inclined to think that they'll have an epic battle and lose. I can't see them winning here without screwing up what little is left from the plot.
I suspect the LT, level Vizards to be around the level of Zaraki/Byakuya. The captain level vizards around the level of Shunsui/Ukitake/Unohana, with only Shinji being slightly stronger than the three with none being at Yamamoto's/Aizen's level.
VC vizards are around Byakuya/Yoruichi level, captain vizards are slightly weaker than Shunsui (Rose a little more), Shinji is on par with or slightly stronger than Shunsui.
Their success against the espada depends on the match-ups. If Aizen fights, vizards will eventually lose. If Aizen, Gin and Tousen doesn't fight, espada (and WW) will lose.
Lol!!WW can rape night and day all the Ukitake/Shunsui level with one hand...if these guys are on that level,this fight will last 7 panels!
The vice captains without masks must have reached captain level presumablly the level of average captain or lower tier captain. And with the mask it should raise thm to about Average to even a highier tier captain. I would assume the VC vizards know bankai because they were surrounded by 4 captains who should know bankai. And if they wanted to get revenge, not only would they train eachother to use the mask but also to advance the shignimi side as in learning new kidou and bankai.
The captains speak for themselves because they were captains lol. All of them must be on par with Byukaya, and when masks are put on they are defo on par or stronger than shunsui
it was said in the last chapter that they all are captain level without the mask. so if the former leutenants are now captain level, the former captains at least be middle tier(if they were lower tier in SS) without the mask.
And let's not forget, the vizards have been doing nothing but training the last 100 years. I don't think I can say the same for SS captains.
Most of the VC vizards are likely around Byakuya's level. Hiyori's definitely weaker imo, since she got beat by Ichigo with a hollow mask and his shikai. At best I think she is low captain level. I figure Hachi was probably a strong VC before he turned into a vizard because he was able to use a level 99 bakudo without an incantion, to subdue a hollow version of Kensei.
Mashiro started being able to wear her mask for hours on end, so I doubt she had to train as many years to master her hollow powers. So Mashiro had more time to upgrade her shinigami abilities. I'm not sure about Lisa, but she looks strong so I guess she also is around Byakuya's level.
Another thing is, they can could have been VCs for a long amount of time, have haxx zanpakatou or they could be really talented. So that may have something to do with the level their currently at.
I think most of the Vizard Captains are near Shunsui's level, with Shinji being near Yamamoto and Aizen's level.
You just gotta check that their only weakness is the time with the mask, Vizards are hax till now, and we dont want to see them opening holes in their chest while their skin becomes white and start to call their swords with the power of the force.
the vc vaizard were vc's when byakuya was a child.
which means that they were stronger than him in the past.
so since they've gained hollow powers and have had plenty of time to train with them, then how in the world could they be equal to byakuya?
theey were greater than him in the past and have to be greater than him now.
for me all the vizard are higher then "average" captains.
Of the pack I see Hachi being a really bad ass (in "living" not hollow form he already was really though)
Kensei was tricked out when "hollificated" (making up this word ) but from what we know the 9th was/is a strong team and him being the captain should tell about his strength
Shinji is something apart, I believe we haven't seen his true strenght, lets not forget though that he was able to know exactly where Aizen was hiding (to much of his surprise asking "since when you knew I was here".....reply "since you were in your mother womb" LOL)
Questions marks are for me people like: Rojuro & Love.
Laid back type which we know little about.
Hiyori is something of a mystery she could be really bad ass or really soft I would go for the latter one.
Maschiro being able to keep the mask for long could be a surprise such as Lisa.
Guess we have to wait a little longer to know.
- The reason he knew shunpo so early is probably because of Yoruichi. I think he grew faster than normal shinigami because of his reiastu and him having Yoruichi as a teacher, but the Vizards were VC before he was even in the Gotei 13.
They had a pretty big headstart on Byakuya.
Last edited by En Yang Ji; July 14, 2009 at 12:27 PM.
I think Shinji is the consistently strongest good guy (ichi is unpredictable). When they came Yama ignored the rest and looked at Shinji with surprise.
The rest therefore I would say are weaker than Shinji. The ex captains are probably greater than or around Yama level. I don't know what hollification does to pure spiritual power, but only in that regards will they be slightly weaker or on par with yama.
The VC's are weaker than yama. When Lisa was standing over Shunsui I got the feeling that she was stronger than him. Not the same battle experience, so he would probably be the better fighter, but she is definitely stronger.
Any vizard could beat the living crap out of Byakuya. Especially considering that we have only seen them in regular vizard mode. Not even shikai...
THe VC vizards are about soifon's level. THe captain vizards are between byakuya's levcel and shunsui. ANd shinji being possibly tied with shunsui