the fight is pointless because Shunsui beat Stark and is proven stronger
I wholeheartedly agree with the notion that Ulquiorra's Segunda Etappa was more like Byakuya's Senkei and NOT another power tier altogether. Makes sense considering Ulq is the Arrancar version of Byakuya, both personality wise and plot-wise. Like, its no coincidence that Kuchiki is currently facing off against Yammy along with Kenpachi....they're the SS "Ulquiorra & Yammy".
Put the fanboyism aside for a second and think about it: Resurreccion is *already* like Ban Kai. Arrancars get a MASSIVE power boost from it, and in most cases a whole set of powers not to mention get their injuries healed to boot! Far beyond what a Shi Kai does for a Shinigami. For the sake of this argument, let's say Yama-jii was a VL Arrancar: his resureccion would do a heck of a lot more than his Shi Kai does for him as a Shinigami (very, very scary thought). Point is, them Arrancars have no Shi Kai equivalent. Thought this was obvious, but apparently not. People saying SE is like Ban Kai need to rethink; its like thinking a Shinigami has a level beyond Ban Kai, which is nonsense even by Bleachverse standards. If SE was really like Ban Kai, not only would it be downright stupid, it would make Arrancars broken and make it seem even more comical how Aizen can control them.
Remember that Ulq said he traded power for high-speed regeneration (which was epic fail, but whatever), when he became an Arrancar. So its perfectly plausible that he developed this "attack form" to his ressurrecion to recoup some of that power he traded away. Speculation on my part, yes, but still better than assuming he has an "Arrancar Ban Kai" which is garbage. And for the people who think SE is the mark of a VL, I will laugh when WW, who is blatantly VL, has only one release. I predict that VL's will have only one release each, unless there is another like Ulq/Byakuya who has multiple forms of their release state. The difference will be that VL Arrancar will be ungodly powerful and talented even in their unreleased forms, therefore, getting them to show that one release will be a huge task in and of itself. And we're already seeing that from WW all now. To sum it up: each of the Espada had a special trait, and SE was Ulquiorra's. That's all.
As for the actual topic...Shunsui wins, obviously. He treated the #1 Espada like a punk. And the Espada rankings weren't wrong. People have the very bad habit of trying to twist or ignore uncontradicted manga statements/evidence...>_>
Last edited by Xerneas; November 02, 2009 at 09:24 AM.
I´ve laughed quite a bit at most of your coments...
lets put this by topics!
1. Shunsui vs Stark
Shunsui beated stark because he stabbed him from behind while stark was going to finish the two vaizards! Shunsui even said he was going to use bankai because he was to strong(said to ukitake but ukitake said to him not to use it because it would be dandgerous for the people surrounding them - this also proves than shunsui has a good bankai but we havent see anything yet so we cant say nothing-). Stark could beat Shunsui if it was 1on1 fight with no interruptions (this is what I believe from what iI´ve seen).
2. Ulquiorra vs Stark
Well Stark is number 1 and Ulquiorra 4 but oh well even Espada ranks dont seem to be "truth". because of what bleach fans have saw most of espadas bellow are actually stronger tha some above... Exemple : Barraga > Stark and MANY others but I will not mention them to not make a new topic...
But we have seen ulquiorra fighting Ichigo! as we can see Bankai Ichigo alone can fight equal to byakuya if not stronger (this when he went to hueco mundo) even if byakuya uses senkei. Well from what we all have seen we can see that most of the strongest captains are equal in power or only a slightly bit stronger or weaker (Kyourako, Byakuya, Kenpachi, Hitsugaya, Komamora, Ukitake - between them there arent any BIG differences in power). Resuming Ichigo Bankai alone is Equal to Kyourako and Most of captain BUT ichigo has the vaizard mask wich makes him even more powerfull at all aspects at some point! So this means he´s stronger than all of the captain´s (yamamoto is not included) and yes he really his (in manga all captain even unohana say that he his the key to victory against aizen , NOT only because he didnt saw Kyouka Suigetsu but also that he with less than half of his power is at captain level and WITHOUT MASK. NOW you all try to proove me wrong...
So if Ichigo > Kyourako and Ulquiorra Only first release owned Ichigo (OWNED) and ulquiorra even has a second release wich makes him way more powerfull than before (stated that his reiatsu is equal to an ocean) and if Kyourako managed to beat Stark ... This concludes that Ulquiorra is by far stronger than stark and then by far stronger than Kyourako even if he had bankai... AH and ulquiorra has HIGH SPEED regeneration (One of the best bleach techs if not the best).
3. Ulquiorra vs Shunsui
Statement 1 + Statment 2 = Ulquiorra is by far stronger than Shunsui (or any captain excluiding Yamamoto)
Ah and to Stark Fanboys : I´M NOT AN ULQUIORRA´S FAN. IM A GRIMMJOW´S FAN and even if I were, this is the truth.
And I bet no one can proove me wrong (or right in some statements) this is all infromation that I´ve gathered from tha manga :X!!!
So because there are similarities between Byakuya and Ulquiorra, it must be that Segunda Etapa is to regular release what Senkei is to Senbonzakura? That's a slim argument at best.
Anyway, in raw power and speed, I would say Ulq pwns Shunsui, but Shunsui is hardly all about brawl. He proved to be a tricky one and I think that would be something one needs when fighting Ulquiorra. I'm positive that his bankai is some out-of-this-world imbalanced piece of haggis, but seeing as we don't know, I'm going with Ulq, based on raw power demonstrated along with nifty regeneration.
Ulquiorra has this in the bag. He's demonstrated FAR more raw power than Shunsui has as well as speed, but not so big as the raw power margin. Starrk was a pretty quick arrancar and he had Shunsui outclassed. Ulquiorra was in the top 4 bracket like the other 3 Espada which meant that his powers were basically even with theirs only with slight differences. That would point out that Ulquiorra in his released state would most likely be around a Shikai Shunsui, either a bit weaker or equal. In that scenario I'd give the fight to Shunsui, although CO would be some trouble, which I'll explain below.
However in a R2-Ulquiorra vs Shunsui scenario, Ulquiorra takes it hands down. Shunsui ran in fear after seeing Starrk spam just a few cero's, and Ulquiorra would just spam CO, which is much faster than Starrk's as they were indeed instantaneous, has shown far more range as well as being all around better. Not only that but the whole Lanza issue as well as Ulquiorra having stronger hierro assuming R1 Ulq has slightly weaker hierro than Released Starrk, not to mention high speed regeneration at that. I dont forsee Shunsui winning this in anyway unless he traps Ulq in his shikai game, and even then the fight would probably still end in Shunsui's death because the color that would inflict the most damage to Ulquiorra would be black, and Shunsui's covered in black far more than Ulquiorra.
Uh, Starrk's ceros were instantaneous, that was pretty much his main gimmick in the straight up gun state. It was Ulquiorra's that had a very clear charge time involved.
Frankly I'd give it to Shunsui with difficulty. Ulquiorra may have regen and high offensive power, but his aim with the lance sucks, he's not capable of spamming CO in any sort of quick succession like Starrk is, which Shunsui was able to dodge anyway for the most part (albeit with some difficulties) and his regen is useless for his organs, which is pretty much what Shunsui aims for in the first place. Also wings cast shadows.
All he really has to worry about is speed, which is hard to judge. Frankly I'd give the higher speed rating to freaking Starrk given Ichigo at least was able to react to Ulquiorra for the most part (he just couldn't do anything about it), he didn't even see base state Starrk move. And he was carrying Orihime.
Second, Starrk was beyond 'pretty quick' He vanished out of site when he kidnapped Orihime. And NO, he did NOT outclass Shunsui. If you paid any attention to the fight, Shunsui was right there with him the whole time. Even when Starrk shot instantaneous ceros Shunsui dodged them without problem. Ichigo couldn't even dodge a cero from Ulquiorra. Then after Starrk releases and has guns, he fires off countless amounts of ceros but Shunsui still dodged them. Only one caught him on the arm that did nothing to him, then a 'cheap shot' cero to the back, that didn't really harm him either.
I think it's funny that people say Shunsui got a 'cheap shot' on Starrk, when the first person to do any 'cheap shooting' was Starrk with that cero. But he got his payback. If Shunsui was a cheap shot he wouldn't have told him the rules of his games. If he was a cheap shot he wouldn't tell 'the kid' Lillynette to go away. He might use distractions, but in a war people who are distracted get hit. Even in a straight up fight, Shunsui would come out a victor. Probably against anyone save Yama or Aizen. His reiatsu is strong enough to capture someone in a game of Starrk's stature, I don't see how Ulquiorra would fare any better than Starrk. The shadows are another thing. He doesn't know about Shunsui's ability to hide and strike a person casting one.
You're mistaken, in THEIR fight, he was with Starrk (in terms of speed) the whole time. Stop reading in between the lines and attacking me with my every post.
You always say the same thing, that if Starrk and Shunsui were to fight straight up it would be different. There isn't any indication Starrk would be able to beat Shunsui even if he did have the wolves. Shunsui's swords were simply not 'heated up' or 'in the mood' much like himself. And he wasn't lying on the ground for half of their fight. Their fight was between themselves. Not between Starrk and the Vizards.
The outcome wouldn't be any different had Shunsui stayed up and into the fight against Starrk. His games would eventually had worked and the outcome would be the same, irooni, grey- slice your arm. Your turn, Starrk says, white, the MOST DAMAGE he could have done since white was the MOST APPARENT COLOR on Starrk. It didn't kill Shunsui, Shunsui throws off his coat, calls black, kills Starrk. We could repeat the scenario 1000's of times. Regardless if Starrk had the hole in him or not, Shunsui wins. Black was the deciding color in the game, it sliced open Starrk's chest/hollow-hole area, it was a done deal.
Much like it could be with Ulquiorra, Shunsui calls irooni, white, strikes Ulquiorra anywhere white is, deals massive damage. Even if the regeneration is there, Ulquiorra has to call a color, what color will he use? Black? Where does Shunsui have much black on? Pink for Shunsui's kimono? Relative damage would be weak. White? He'd have to aim for a small area under the Pink Kimono. Either way, it's not a very strong attack for Ulquiorra, turn over. Shunsui throws off his kimono and captains robe, calls black like he did with Starrk and slices him down the middle in almost the same manner. Game over for Ulquiorra, and stop casting shadows with that Lanza, it's easy to shunpo behind you and get a stab in with the time it takes to use that attack. Even if he sees him coming, he won't know about the shadow game. I don't see a lot of scenarios where Ulquiorra could win. Even in Segunda Etapa.
shunsui would beat Ulq as ulq is trash even with a second stage of release he still weak. compared to barragan and everyone else.
on other note Barragan would complety own Shunsui, Ukitake and the SS
I don't think shunsui would have an easy time here even in resurreccion. If we analize starrk, it is very clear he ultimately was a ranged fighter, just look at his guns and wolves. On the other hand, ulquiorra is exclusively a short range fighter. I really doubt that starrk would be that superior (or perhaps at all) to ulquiorra in a close range fight considering that. Ichigo with mask and bankai is perhaps not a speed monster but he is not that slow either, IMO resurreccion ulquiorra doing that to him is quite a feat. Not to mention HSR, attacks which would at least cause a small wound to other enemies would be meaningless at all against ulquiorra. For instance, injuring ulquiorra like starrk was with the shadow game would slow him down even less than what it did to starrk considering at least the bleeding would instantly stop for ulquiorra. I don't see shunsui having that much of an easy time against resurreccion ulquiorra. Segunda etapa is another inknown up to now but if it is what I believe it is, I'd have to lean towards ulquiorra in this one.
People voting for shinsui are funny. v2 ulquiorra would pwn him especially since he can regenrate fast.
Ulquiorra's a long range fighter. The two attacks he had in his arsenal were pretty much long range techs. Granted both could be used in close range, but in the minimal part of that fight that was, you know, a fight as opposed to beating down a dude who was already defeated, he was keeping his distance most of the time.Quote:
Oops this post got buggy. I meant more along the lines of his pre-released state, where he usually chose to fight unarmed (like when he met with Urahara and exchanged blows with Grimmjow, not to mention numerous times against Ichigo).
Last edited by Xsoteria; June 15, 2010 at 12:01 PM.