the fight is pointless because Shunsui beat Stark and is proven stronger
we'll seeing as how i've been seeing ALOT of people who believe that Ulquiorra is the "strongest espada" i decided to make this thread.
i however DON'T believe he is the strongest espada just because he has a second ressureccion.
like i've said before at most he is stronger than Halibal but not Stark or Barragan. Yammi has been proven to be all brawn and no brain so his 0 rank means squat right know and he to would be beaten by Stark and Barragan.
i've decided to make this especially for the Ulquiorra fans that say he is the strongest.
so lets begin
Shunsui full power "Bankai" vs Ulquiorra full power "segunda"
Last edited by BaddAzzKenpachi74; October 18, 2009 at 07:47 AM.
Byakuya says "This is Senbonzakura's true form"
Ulquiorra says "This is true despair"
Reactions from nakama to Byakuya's Senkei
Reactions from nakama to Ulquiorra's Segunda Etapa
Ichigo has big problems against Senkei
Ichigo has big problems against Segunda Etapa
Ichigo loses to Senkei
Ichigo loses to Segunda Etapa
Hollow interferes against Byakuya
Hollow interferes against Ulquiorra
like i said this is for the Ulquirria fans that "THINK" he is the strongest espada.
so by there flawed logic Ulquirria would be stronger than Stark "which he is not" so i decided to state that Shunsei+Bankai vs Ulqurria+segunda to humor them lol.
since Shunsei was shown to beat Stark with only shikai those Ulqurra fans would naturally think that Shunsui would need bankai to beat "the strongest espada lol"
Kubo is an intelligent mangaka, he caused much controversy by introducing a Segunda Etapa which had no bearing on the result of Ulquiorra vs Ichigo fight at all. Ulquiorra was already winning with his Resurreccion Primera Etapa, i.e. Stark, Barragan and Harribel could also dispatch Ichigo without much effort. Segunda Etapa served no purpose other than humiliating Ichigo even further, and people interpreted this humiliation as a sign of Ulquiorra's awesome strength, forgetting that he would get the same treatment from Top 3.
Can you imagine that Byakuya reveals to Ichigo that there's a shinigami concept called bankai, this is a secret and only himself achieved it? It doesn't make sense, does it? Now replace Byakuya with Ulquiorra, shinigami with arrancar and bankai with segunda etapa and everything suddenly makes much sense to people, due to popularity of Ulquiorra I guess. Segunda etapa is not arrancar bankai, it's just the second stage of resurreccion similar to Byakuya's senkei.
shunsui could beat Ulq with his shikai
i've said many times that Ulquarria having a segunda doesn't give him a HUGE boost in power like some people seem to think.
like by saying that he is the strongest espada is absurd since that would mean that Segunda jumps his power 4 whole ranks "that is if u include Yammi released".
even if Segunda gave him the power similar to a bankai i still don't believe he would jump of 4 whole ranks in power.
thats like saying if Stark had a segunda he would be stronger than Aizen.
its just pure favoritism. like i said Segunda most likely makes him stronger than Halibal i'll agree to that.
but in no way will i EVER believe he is stronger than Stark or Barragan since i'm 100% positive that those 2 could own Ichigo just as bad as Ulquarria did
Segunda Etapa has little to no basis for comparison among anything. I can't think of any reason it was introduced into the story. Ulquiorra fanservice? As a completely immeasurable way to "make Ichigonator look stronger"? Half of me thinks it's because even Kubo thought Ulquiorra's first release was lame looking, and thought he deserved a more fitting one aesthetically. I mean it was basically "gain wings and a bigger hat", I was disappointed when I saw it. Segunda Etapa's look admittedly fit him much better.
Even when we see a decent comparison for Ichigonator, it won't help us determine how strong Ulquiorra was, because he got slaughtered.
Anyways, if you're throwing in Shunsui's BANKAI, when his shikai has the power to bend reality to its whims... it wouldn't even be a contest. I can't fathom what his bankai would even be, honestly. Turning his opponent into an attractive female, who takes extra combat damage every time he sexually harasses her? This is all assuming his bankai is actually an upgrade, unlike Soifon's. (Death in two strikes to... not death in 3 nukes... UPGRADE!)
Like I said recently in another thread, people overrate Ulquiorra because they actually believed vizard Ichigo to be powerful, when in reality he wasn't even at captain level.
All of this confusion goes back to the Soul Society arc where Kenpachi and Byakuya handed Ichigo a draw. Believe it or not, there's still a lot of ignorant fans out there that thing Ichigo was stronger than Kenpachi with his shikai, or that Ichigo could defeat Byakuya easily with his bankai alone.
If you look at the direct translation from spanish, you will see that it means "resurection: second stage". Looking at the translation from japanese it means "Sword's Release: Second Level". In japanese and spanish the translation is basically the same but it is worth noting that none of them eveb vaguely suggests that ulquiorra is still in his resurreccion(the first one). The words use are exactly the same as the ones used to discribe and name bankai.
Now, lets take a look at this:
Which you compared to this:
Ishida clearly states the feeling he gets from segunda etapa is completely different from anything he has felt before. Whats more, he goes as far as saying "not just in size or strength". Now, if segunda etapa is completely different in size or strength to anything he has felt before the logically that includes what he felt when byakuya used senkei. The way the manga has portrayed things as of now, it would seem as if the difference between the feeling of senkei and segunda etapa cannot even be considered in the same context(otherwise there is no point in saying the reiatsu is so thick it does not even feel like reiatsu).
I give you props for finding a pattern between the byakuya and ulquiorra fights but IMHO the manga has done nothing but suggest segunda etapa is an arrancars bankai(from the name to its effects).
Last edited by kkck; October 19, 2009 at 12:51 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
I really wish those that voted "Ulquiorra wins" would post there reasons for why they made that selection. In my opinion this is no contest, but it would be interesting to read people's arguments for why they feel Ulquiorra could defeat Shunsui.
And what long history of arrancar are you talking about lol? Before aizen there had only been a few incomplete arrancar around and given what we saw they could barely release properly(just look at GF). Given the actually SHORT history of arrancar, their scarce numbers and the fact that very few would actually have the talent to achieve such a thing it kinda makes sense that most arrancar don't use or even know about it. Seriously, in SS there are thousands of shinigami and among them less than 2 dozens have reached bankai. How would it be any different for arrancar(specially when the truly complete ones are so absurdly scarce)?
I think who ever created this thread should merge choice 1 and 3 together, since they are bascically the same thing.
As Gran has stated, ulqui's transformation is similar to vigio, or whatever "its" name is. Vigio transform and focused more on power than speed. Ulqui transformed to focus more on regeneration as he has stated. I think ulqui is ranked correctly. as # 4. The only reason why he seemed so powerful was b/c he was beating ichigo like crazy. But ichi is considerably weaker than someone like shunsui.
In the end ulqui would lose bad to starks and even worse to shunsui
I mean, where the hell do you get Stark/Barragan>Yammi? We've seen Yammi fight in his released form for like 10 seconds now, and your so quick to write him off as a weakling?
Excuse me, but the one that got owned by a shikai was Stark.
I'm in no way saying that Yammi is stronger than Stark/Barragan, all I'm saying, is that from canon evidence alone, we have no way to compare them yet.
Also, assuming you use feats instead of canon evidence to gauge the power of Yammi vs. Stark and Barragan, then you contradict yourself again. Ulquiorra has by far the most impressive feats for an espada, but you say he is not stronger than his rank. Yammi has shown basically no feats, and you say he is weaker than his rank.
The point I'm trying to make is, we have no basis of comparison for Ulquiorra to Stark/Barragan to Yammi.
If we go by Aizen's numbering scheme, it should go like this:
Then there is also the thing about ulquiorra saying he achieved another level of release rather than just a form and gigio actually saying his transformation was just a form of his resurreccion.