hey Joe7133, welcome to the site and to the Claymore section!
Hope, you like Claymore much as I do, hehe! Keep making good posts!
I have to disagree though (as I'm firmly a "Teresa supporter"), I don't see experience or age having any baring in Claymore. Frankly, Claymore is much like DBZ with power levels. It's all about power levels in Claymore, as the power levels cause such a vast difference, that such factors in our real world with combat, just really don't apply to Claymore, as they're so minor compared to the sheer vastness of power levels.
Awakened Priscilla was pwning everyone because her power level is far beyond that of even the Abyssal Ones.
And Teresa pwned Priscilla repeatedly because her power level was 7-8 times beyond that of even Priscilla's.
It's really that simple, and there's no Goku in Claymore whom wins with a weaker power level or having their power level magically shoot up like it does with Goku and DBZ.
Oh some characters are close in power levels, where other factors can then come into play, but this is quite rare.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; November 04, 2010 at 12:15 AM.
You know after what I re-read the extra chapter about Teresa and Rosemary, I'm thinking Teresa is a total monster that no one ever knew.
Chapter 73 extra scene 01 page 27.
Rosemary an AO was shock at Teresa crazy Yoma energy!
I really do believe that with the org's current roster, Teresa cannot be defeated. Priscilla was supposed to be the next number 1, should Teresa retires (which i find really impossible) because she has the potential to surpass Teresa. However, lacking experience, Priscilla awakened and sadly cheated her way to kill Teresa. Basically because there was no way Priscilla can defeat Teresa.
Teresa is plain and simple, The most powerful Claymore that lived. I am so sure that she could defeat the Abyssal Ones, should Teresa was given the chance.
Considering Theresa died right after, the debate kind of ends at 'Priscilla may have been able to get stronger than her, but never really did'. Irene also partly blames the fact that Priscilla did manage to kill her on her 'decline' as a warrior because she failed to kill Priscilla when she quite obviously could. So as Claymores, Theresa was waaay stronger.
The only thing I'm unsure about is whether an awakened Theresa would be stronger than Priscilla is now, and notice Priscilla's power is quite... ridiculous. She completely annihilated the the merged thing of Beth and (Number 1 strength...) and one of the projectiles from the big Luciela/Rafaela thing, in seconds, while calling it a weak baby. Would Theresa have been able to do the same? And can Priscilla actually beat the whole Luciela/Rafaela being? She might be tiny compared to it but we all know that means nothing... if she could, I wouldn't be able to say Theresa would have been stronger than her.
Though I guess we'll never really know for sure. =/
You're repeating a common mistake. You will find counter-arguments to everything you said on account of Priscilla in this topic but I'll try to briefly sum it up for you.
When Irene said that Priscilla had the potential to surpass Teresa she didn't know Teresa's power at all besides what Teresa let others see and sense. In fact Irene thought that each of their talents was better than Teresa's and that Teresa was only able to dominate everyone thanks to her pre-emptive youki sensing (PYS in short). She also thought that Priscilla was fighting blindly but we know thanks to Priscilla that it wasn't exactly true. Priscilla noticed sth Irene as an observer couldn't - Teresa sped up. She was gradually taking it up a notch, i.e. she could have dealt with Priscilla anytime she wanted and was playing with her. We know it thanks to many clues that Yagi has left for us the most obvious one being fighting four of them at once. No matter how good her PYS would be it would not allow her to slow time which would be required if she was slower than four of them combined. What good would it do if Teresa knew exactly where 4 of them would strike if they did it at once and she wasn't faster than them (and we know they attacked her at once)? Unless she had 4 arms, 4 swords eyes behind her head and could multi-task it would be impossible so the only other explanation is that she was faster than 4 of them combined. PYS doesn't tell how to hold a sword (at what angle, etc.) or where to stand. It only tells about the incoming attack but how could it help with 4 warriors? In fact we know thanks to Clare that it's very unreliable technique that helped only in specific moments (like ranged attacks - Rigulad/male AB from slasher's arc or sneak attacks). But going back to Irene, not long after Irene and Priscilla had Teresa in the corner (or so it would seem to them) Teresa has shown a glimpse of her real power. That's when Irene said: "I misjudged her AGAIN" (so it wasn't the first time she thought Teresa could be defeated). After their complete defeat Irene still thought that Priscilla had more potential. But notice that Irene couldn't sense Teresa yet but she could sense - and she did - Priscilla who has released at least 30% of youki. So she was comparing 30% Priscilla and 0% Teresa. She saw that Teresa effortlessly disposed of 30% Priscilla plus 3 others and still thought Priscilla would eventually come on top... Talk about foolishness.
However, once Irene could sense Teresa everything became clear to her. Irene said that Teresa exceeded Priscilla's immense power.
And there is Irene's strange behavior (volume 7, about page 100-110). I for one would think that she would tell Clare that even Teresa was nowhere near Priscilla's power if that was the case. After all she sensed Priscilla after she "released her latent abilities". She was at the time at full power and totally aware of what was going on (being even sarcastic). She sensed Teresa's power too, after she released her youki (she had never had a chance like that before) and understood who was the boss there. What's more, when talking to Clare she told her: "There's not a warrior alive today who can stop her".
She couldn't have known any "today" warriors or their capabilities since she was in hiding ever since her encounter with Priscilla. So if she didn't know them her statement wouldn't make any sense unless there was a warrior that was capable of defeating awakened Priscilla.
And we know she she didn't know about present warriors because of her encounter with Ophelia and Raphaela (it also suggests that she basically knew only warriors from her own generation). She was surprised that warriors these days are so aggressive.
Irene specifically said that there's not a warrior alive today, which suggests that there was such warrior but he's dead now. I wouldn't see a point of her saying that if she didn't mean that (she didn't say - even Teresa was/would be no match to her or Priscilla is the most powerful being ever). Also she didn't try to stop Clare (and she clearly cared about her) by saying "if Teresa stood no chance you won't stand a chance either". It looked to me she wasn't 100% sure Clare would lose, most probably because of Teresa factor in Clare.
As for what Teresa said herself about Priscilla. She only said that she doesn't know how their next encounter will turn out. Which basically says nothing to us besides that Teresa wasn't 100% sure she would win against her. But that's rather obvious. There is no fight with 100% chance of success. Anyway, read what she said here: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...23#post3376123
As for Priscilla being ridiculously strong - true. That doesn't change the fact that she was constrained by Raciella +Clare (who is nowhere near Teresa in terms of power) and ended up just like Clare. So it was a close fight, not one-sided one. And taking into account that 10% Teresa could wipe the floor with 80% Priscilla it makes it rather obvious that Teresa's power was even beyond that of Priscilla. And while Priscilla is strong she has also shown that she wasn't that strong. Yes she dealt with Alicia, Beth and Riful easily. But they were all weakened (either physically or mentally). She also had problems with carching up to Deneve and didn't know how to deal with projectiles and yet she could destroy Raciella instantly. She also had problems with Duff for a moment and she also took quite a beating from Isley. Sure, she had still a big advantage, etc. etc. but for all we know she could be only 100% stronger and faster than Isley or even 50% (which still would be a huge advantage and since she dealt with Alicia almost instantly would explain why such "small" advantage would suffice). Although I'm guessing she's more like 200% faster and stronger and has 10 times as much youki as an Abyssal (but then one might ask how come Deneve and Helen managed to escape from her for such a long time...).
Last edited by Goral; February 06, 2011 at 12:35 PM.
I think, that Teresa was indeed stronger then Priscilla, and not only Her Yoma side, but also human.
What do You think, what kind of Yoma flesh Teresa has been implanted to gain so overwhelming power level? We know, that all abilities come form Yoma side, and human side is only to keep the power level in reasonable limits. We know what is happening when human side lose control.
Also, I read all this post (5 pages) and no one even wonder about that, what Extremely Strong human side must Teresa had, to keep this power under control.
Than, She fights only on 10% of Her power. Question Was in another thread, did this was only all She can use?
I think, that She never have to use more then 10% of Her power, because this 10% was already too much overreacted on every enemy, She ever meet to fight.
Think of it, like a way of Warrior, who knows His limits, power, skills and know, that fight is only a moment, and True Warriors never allow to show enemy emotions or act overconfidence. So maybe Teresa knew, that She can go over 50% maybe even 70% but for what? Glory? Pleasure? Show?
And also Teresa seems to be cold hearted b....., but the way She fight with Rosemary as an Warrior to Warrior, even with true relief that Rosemary awakened first, and She don't have to kill Her own companion. And that words: "I usually don't do that a lot..." because when You don't need full power to defeat enemy, why to use it? 10% was enough for Rosemary, and death She was killed was fast and painless, like True Warriors can kill.
Every One know Berserk Manga, maybe You will remember when Serpico challenge Guts in the room full of pillars. The words of Serpico, when he loose was:
"He answered to my challenge with the sword by the sword. No matter how bad the circumstance was for him....And most of all He didn't release the powers of the armor..."
That is how Warriors fighting, to win, but not to lost control on them. A truly Faint Smile
And hesitate to kill Priscilla... already beaten enemy, shaking with fear and crying like a baby, which She just was. Is true Warrior kills like a villain? Even when Teresa knew, that in the future it means nothing but troubles, She pass away. This kind of honor code of Her, made Her dead, but at least She die with that, what She truly beliefs.
Have a nice evening
Last edited by colonywars; March 09, 2011 at 01:49 PM. Reason: My rusted english... :P
Here's my reason to believe that Teresa is a monster.
At first, no one has ever seen Teresa power up to 10% to fight.
Irene/Sophia/Noel/Teresa can sense Priscilla power level after she had release it.
Irene being defeated with Sophia/Noel/Priscilla at 10-30% figure that they were too blind to see Teresa true power.
Teresa only state that Priscilla maybe as strong as her because Priscilla hasn't release her power level. After she release it, Teresa did in fact stated that Priscilla should give up because she was in no state to win.
The power level that Irene stated that one was higher than the other was really Teresa. Teresa at 10% was greater than Priscilla at 70%. This was show by Teresa knocking Priscilla at 70% back.
More fact even show that Teresa at 10% was able to kill an AO Rosemary with ease.
Why did Teresa die? She let her emotional ruin her perception and Priscilla took the advantage to kill her.
Why is Priscilla stronger than the other AO? I'm sure she was probably stronger because she came out of the shop and jumped to rank 2. This doesn't give her a reason to be stronger then Teresa. Teresa is still far stronger. If Teresa had awaken, I feel the organization and the 3 AO might have to tag just to get rid of her.
Last edited by Joe7133; March 10, 2011 at 03:05 AM.
OK, so we have Teresa, who we've never seen use more than 10% of her power in an unawakened state. Dae implants the flesh of Priscilla, who is at least as powerful as Riffle and Luciela combined. Do the math and we have colonywars' doomsday machine. It does seems like nuclear overkill.
Though I may be mistaken, I can't see all the Claymore warriors combined taking on an Abyssal One made from any of the former No. 1s, let alone a revived Teresa. Remember what Luciela did to HQ with even less power?
What worthy target could such a weapon be used against in the current state of the series? The Yoki cocoon of the Destroyer appears inert. But some posters here and on some other forums anticipate a combined Clare-Priscilla or Clare-Destroyer, or even a Clare-Priscilla-Destroyer. Maybe.
This revived Teresa business is what I least expected since Master Dae first proposed his project to Chief Klimt. But with so many readers anticipating Teresa's resurrection, even a skeptic like me has to reconsider the possibility. What about Cassandra? Or is she a red herring? I feel another one of those three-four-way fights coming our way.
Too mind boggling :-)
Last edited by jamie95403; March 10, 2011 at 04:26 AM.
1. Teresa was ambushed by the bandits and it didn't fare too well for the bandits. The bandits have no yoki since they were human. Sure they were just bandits but ambushing is a bandits trade.
2. Teresa said in her own words that Priscilla could of wounded her. Said nothing about actually killing her.
3. This may be my strongest evidence. In Capter 21, Page 22. When Teresa was parrying Ilena's attack, a YR Priscilla came up from behind to go cut at Teresa's head. Then she sees the sword at the corner of her eyes and then noticed Priscilla. Then nothing follow by blood gushing out of Ilena. She evaded an attack by a +30% YR Priscilla at the last moment with the blade coming just a few inches while she's still pinned down by +30% YR Ilena and still manages to cut down Ilena in the process. She didn't need to sense yoki when going up against mere claymores with that kind of insane combat reflexes in order to evade an attack by them.
4. At +70% YR Priscilla on Chapter 22, Teresa state that there was so much yoki coming out of Priscilla that she can't read her flow. That means her yoki sensing was mooted till she goes +10% YR herself. Two pages later, we see +70% YR Priscilla stabbing at Teresa's head. Teresa has her blade in a lowered position, Priscilla's blade then came almost touching Teresa, then suddenly Teresa kocks it out of the way ending with her having a minor cut. This is proof of more of Teresa's insane reflex speed, able to knock away an incoming attack at high velocity that's literally an inch away to minimize any damage.
My final conclusion is, having her being caught offguard, or ambushing is not enough to take Teresa down as a lone factor. The person doing the ambushing must also be able to Swing Her Sword Fast Enough to evade her insane reflex speed. A none YR Priscilla could not inflcit a deep enough wound on Teresa in an ambush, Teresa would of noticed the blade coming at her i while in mid swing and evade/parry/kock it away as soon as it get too close for comfort. It would take Priscilla at a +70% YR to swing the blade fast enough to cut down -10% YR Teresa through and through in a surprised situation.
Teresa's end was ultimately her own doing. Droping her yoki down below 10%.
Teresa let her guard down, lowering her yoki to under 10% and then was cut down by a surprised attack with a swing fast enough by Priscilla's going over 80% YR to counter Teresa's insane reflex speed.
Thanks for doing the work for me. I've recently had the same dispute with other on AS. In fact I've been using the same picture you're using for years. That is the best proof of Teresa being a goddess. This and Irene's words "so that's the true nature of Teresa's strength" where "that" is youki. It meant that Teresa's greatest strength wasn't her pre-emptive youki sensing or experience but the limitless youki she had. Youki that went beyond even that of Priscilla's.
According to Irene, Ranks 2-5 individually did things better than Teresa (i.e power, speed, agility), but it was her ability to read Youki that put her over the top.
When Teresa faced Priscilla, it took Teresa time to adjust the fact she couldn't read Priscilla's youki before using her combat experience to overtake her. However, Priscilla just joined the organization and obviously was not at the combat level of anyone in Ranks 2 through 5.
So based on Teresa's showing against Priscilla, isn't it likely to say, without her ability to read Youki, Teresa would, on her physical merits alone, only be a Rank 6 or lower?
Maybe this is why the organization didn't seem especially bothered by her passing. After all, what use is someone who is only good at fighting their own kind? The Claymores are built to fight the Dragonkin, so wouldn't Teresa be considered just another failure of the organization?
Pirscilla pwnz Teresa which is a fact of the manga. Who killed who again? O yeah that's right Pirscilla killed Teresa. I sware that girl gets way to much hype from people.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; July 16, 2011 at 01:13 AM.
Teresa also proved Ilena's initial assessment wrong with action. I think Teresa proves that she's acturly a lot stronger, faster and more agile then what Ilena first said. Lets compare Teresa with the best out of the three.
Sophia: Cutting through a solid stone pillar to kill the yoma hiding behind it. Stabbing through the floor of the inn to kill Teresa.
Teresa: Kicking Noel across the street and in to the second story of the inn, with enough force to left a large dent behind on a stone wall. 10% Teresa repeling +70% Priscilla's massive strenght with one arm. Corkscrewing Rank 1 AB Rosemary's arm off with "flick of her wrist".
Noel: Doing cartweels around killing lots of Yoma in process. (Yeah, I couldn't find much reference)
Teresa: Doing a 360 flip and landing on Noel's blade end (the sharp edge not the blunt side) then cutting Noel in one move. We seen her get out of harms way at the last moment just as the blade was about to hit her many times.
Ilena: Well we all know Ilena can use the Quicksword to swing her blade really fast.
Teresa: She don't she uses any technique, but I think she can swing her blade damn fast too. She chopped up Rosemary to bits pretty much instantly. She can block Ilena's Quicksword, being able to sense the quicksword is no good by itself if your body is too slow to move to intercept the blade for a successful block or parry.
This is base on my assumption for example use and in no way accurate or official.
Rank:.....----#3 or #4----... #2.........#1
Note, I'm giving Teresa a very low estimate here with only being 80/100 in terms of speed, agility and strength and she still ends up with the highest total value. She would be #1 still even without yoki sensing and using Ilena's flawed assessment.
I think every Claymore is considered a failure so far by the Organization, otherwise they would of already stop the research and starts on mass production and plans to ship them over the sea.
Last edited by Khorr; July 15, 2011 at 11:06 PM.
You might want to reassess your conclusions regarding the Teresa/Priscilla conflict. Yes, Priscilla does kill Teresa. However, she does not overwhelm Teresa. As a matter fact, Priscilla could barely keep up with Teresa. Irene, who observed the fight from a safe distance, even remarked that Teresa had outclassed Priscilla. "Priscilla has been outmatched all along (Ch 20. P. 21)." Also, we see that Teresa draws first blood by cutting Priscilla's cheek and also by striking Priscilla's metal epaulet.
When the three executioners all release their Youki, Teresa defeated them with even greater ease. Consumed by fear, Priscilla cowered on her knees unable to move. Yielding to the newly rediscovered softness in her heart, Teresa spared Priscilla's life. During the final melee, Teresa who only used 10% of her Youki managed to complete destroy a nearly 80% youki release Priscilla.
That Priscilla killed Teresa does not mean that her abilities far exceeded those of her elder warrior. Teresa could no longer kill indiscriminately, as she saw in Priscilla, an innocent child that deserved a second chance. Her kindness and foolish optimism doomed her. Priscilla was already beyond saving.
Priscilla outwitted and deceived Teresa to deal her the final blow. Priscilla pawns Teresa? The events in the Marked for Death chapter do not support that statement.
Last edited by Vengeance; July 16, 2011 at 12:16 AM.