For the longest time I assumed pain started it and it was taken over by madara because of his power and ambition, but then I was rereading sasuke vs Itachi and itachi stated Madara started akasuki. If thats the case what was the point of pain being the figure head "leader" for ever. Or can Kishi just not make up his mind
Madara started Akatsuki. He recruited Pain because they share the same goal(Bijuu collection) but they both had different inner motives for what they would do with the Bijuus.
There were only 4 people in Akatsuki who knew who Tobi really was... Itachi, Zetsu, Pain and Konan. The rest didn't know because Madara never wanted them to know who he really was, so he gives Pain orders in the shadows and makes him act as the leader.
Madara founded Akatsuki, recruited Pain, made him his leader and made Pain do the rest of the work. Hence why few actually knew of Tobi, because Pain was the "leader" and the one who handled recruiting, either by himself or by giving the task to others. Madara was just a behind the scene controller for the whole time, while Pain acted as his medium, or messenger if you like.
Tobi did not even become a full member until after Sasori died. Madara was actually posing as one of Zetsu's henchman for most of Akatsuki's existence.
I was under the impression that the group Yahiko started was the precursor to Akatsuki and that Madara just came in with the idea of using the Bijuus.
I'm not sure I got the full implication but that is plausible. Yahiko's group had the same cloaks as Akatsuki (without the clouds). It's entirely possible that Nagato and Konan founded Akatsuki with Madara coming along later, gaining control through his stature and past. I do believe I remember Madara saying he founded Akatsuki but my memory is unreliable. However it was founded Madara stayed so far in the background that he was not even a member until very recently in the time line.
I think Madara founded Akatsuki, or at least cofounded it with Nagato. Looks like Nagato's instrumental to all this. Madara probably knew about Nagato and used a way to get what he wanted; peace. Power to create peace.
Madara was more behind the scenes, I guess.
Akatsukis roots seem to be more implanted in the world than just a bunch of missing nins seeking bijuu. its hinted here, that they have been used in the past as an mercenary group (pain confirms this when explaining Akatsukis goals to Hidan). An underground organization used at times of peace to do the dirty work. A "ROOT" per se. because of this, it seems that Akatsuki goes back much further than when Nagato would have joined. Out of the current (dead and alive) Akatsuki members, Madara is the only one that could have been alive long enough to create such an organization.Well there is Kakazu... but he just doesn't seem the type.
It was also stated that there were rumors of Akatsuki being formed in Kirigakure[here]. Madara being the former kage of that village would seem to cement his role in creating the organization.
Last edited by vintagemistakes; February 15, 2010 at 11:18 PM.
Madara likely formered an organization called Akatsuki, while he was still Mizukage, and it took full affect after he stepped down for whatever reason.
Yahiko's group was nothing but a group of rebels who opposed Hanzou, at the time, they were still vying for power over Ame. World peace was nothing but a pipe dream to them at that point, and it would seem only after Yahiko's death was Nagato truly pushed into his Pain God persona.
In any event, I'm gonna make a guess that Madara already had Zetsu, and made an offer to Nagato. In exchange for information on things such as jutsu and even info. on his Rinnegan, Nagato would be the leader of his Akatsuki organization which would have a goal of capturing Biju and using them for world peace. This probably happened after Nagato took control of the Rain Village probably twenty or so years ago in the manga.
I think Nagato has only ruled Ame for about three years. Anyhow, Madara had to have teamed up with Nagato less then 12 years ago, Otherwise Madara wouldn't have used the Kyuubi to attack Konoha.
I pretty much agree with all of you about Madara being the one who started Akatsuki, but why Nagato said here:
that he was the one who created Akatsuki? It was just a lie in the face of his enemy, or not? If we assume it was Madara, Nagato just lied, if we assume it wasn't Madara, Nagato told the truth, and it would be him being the one who started it all and Madara later on joining and "influencing" him more <like he told Naruto and co. that it's easy to manipulate such ppl as Nagato or Sasuke>. There's also this:
The bold part especially tends towards Nagato being the founder of Akatsuki. Kaiten.Sama did really good job summing this up later on methinks.Originally Posted by Kaiten.Sama
Pain said that because at that time, he was still evil. He had to lie otherwise Madara's cover would have been blown, and at that time, no one knew about Madara. It had to be kept that way...
My thinking is "Akatsuki" as a concept existed way before Nagato came along, ie. mercenary organizations working for shinobi nations. There could have been lots of incarnations, possibly several "Akatsuki"'s at once, but none reached the stature of the current one. That's how the whole "over the years" quote came from in the Kage summit.
The Akatsuki that Nagato and Madara cofounded (IMO they cofounded it), was the latest incarnation of the merc org.