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Yet when I said something about it here:
Last edited by KiSwordsman; August 20, 2014 at 08:07 AM.
Its a question followed by an admission that I don't remember something.
You read it and thought " ....type counterargument... press enter"
Now I understand why you are claiming moving the goal post, but there was really no goal post to move.
Upon checking it again, its your claim of moving the goal post that is suspect.
You raised up the 1000 techniques and the genjutsu.
I even addressed the one where you included Itachi due to his ability to cast genjutsu with his fingers and all of it as what the author wrote.
But after several interactions, you complain about goal post moves on the subjects you raised despite the fact that you raised them.
Last edited by Toby_Temple; August 20, 2014 at 10:37 AM.
How exactly was it clear that that was what you were addressing.
The whole point of bringing up Itachi anyway was to show that genjutsu is not on the eye it's on the individual. A point that you indeed did bring up. Then you brought up the fact that he could not teach her genjutsu because he's not a genjutsu type. That itself is not true given the fact that he did use genjutsu without the sharingan before. And the simple fact that he's not a genjutsu type, does not mean he can't teach genjutsu at least the very basics of it. After this you no longer address my point and simply claimed that I had a reading comprehension problem. Thinking of it, there was really nothing regarding the 1000 technique moniker that I claimed you to be moving the goalpost on. You brought up genjutsu coming from the eye, I countered it, you switch stances to saying it was about his typing, I countered it, you ignore it afterwards.
Based on you not denying my interpretation, of the post I initially replied to and vagueness of the sentence regarding Itachi the only other thing that I claimed you to be moving the goal post on was indeed on me. However, you claiming now it was a simple question and need for clarification on your part after all of this is very questionable.
Last edited by KiSwordsman; August 20, 2014 at 06:49 PM.
If Kakashi went wrong simply because he showed favouritism by teaching a certain student, then Gai is just as bad for special training Lee in the 8 gates tai arts.
If Kakashi is blamed for not teaching Naruto and Sakura techs, then Kurenai is just as faulty in this department towards her student, Shino the hive guy, Hinata the hyuuga girl, and Kiba of the Akamaru dog clan. The same blame would also transpire to Asuma for not teaching Inoshikacho any tangible techs they could proudly call unique.
Kakashi's role was to lead the GENINS-the youngest, lowest and most inexperienced ranked ninjas- through a series of lowly ranked E-D-C and or on rare occasion, B ranked missions, and given em real experience being out their in the world. On that note, I think it's fair to say Kakashi fulfilled his duty as a teacher.
Eventually, greater and stronger teachers took his students under their wing and developed their power for real.
Now, was that fair for the students left out? Hell to the no...a thousands no...absolutely not fair
I am going to take a completely different approach here and look at it from the perspective of the students. From that perspective, Kakashi was always an inadequate and insufficient teacher. Let's start with Sasuke:
- Kakashi took Sasuke under his wing as both of them were alike on few fronts. Even when the team Kakashi and Minato flashbacks are shown, Kakashi is always paralleled with Sasuke. He had the lightening affinity, he had talent, and he was a prodigy. All ticks for Kakashi as well. So, for Kakashi, Sasuke was the easy student who could be molded into a much better ninja. He created a bond with him by teaching him his signature technique in hopes of mollifying Sasuke's revenge.
Now, was Kakashi an adequate teacher for Sasuke? I don't think so. Putting all the nonsense about Nationalism aside, Sasuke wanted revenge. Compared to Orochimaru, Kakashi was not an apt teacher. He couldn't teach him to master CS, he couldn't forsake the Leaf indoctrinated principles and let Sasuke, for example, practice Kenjutsu by trying to kill hundreds of shinobi - Sasuke chose not to, but he intended otherwise - or use overpowering Genjutsu whenever he felt like etc etc.
Orochimaru probably used god knows how many methods not advised openly in any village to get Sasuke Sasuke to train all the time. He also wanted revenge on Itachi and Kakashi was just not the right teacher to teach him how to attain this goal.
- Naruto was mostly sidelined as Kakashi was originally appointed as a simple watch dog. He taught Naruto little because of his original responsibilities. Naruto needed a father figure, and Kakashi wasn't it. Jiraiya filled that hole aptly. After the FRS method, Kakashi's usefulness as a teacher completely vanished. Naruto needed someone like Bee, a Jinchuriki to teach him how to tame Kurama.
I doubt even Naruto wanted Kakashi to teach him all this. It's much more obvious if one looks at it from the other end.
- Sakua had medic nin capabilities from the start. Even for her Kakashi was an inadequate teacher, given his complete lack of experience in this department. He couldn't have taught Sakura anything noticeable. I think she made the right choice by going to Tsunade, just like Sasuke and Naruto did for their other respective teachers.
People forget that it's all about convenience and better teaching to attain goals. It was not Kakashi who failed in my opinion, but the students had completely different mindsets to begin with. I don't think Kakashi could have pleased this motley bunch.
Last edited by shahdan; August 20, 2014 at 05:11 PM.
It doesn't work that way, KiSwordsman.
As for not teaching Sakura, wasn't Sakura the designated medic of Team 7? I can't seem to remember anything about Kakashi knowing medical ninjutsus.
Is a question and a need for clarification. - This is a statement of fact. NOT AN OPINION.
Seriously. The first sentence ends in a question mark (?). The next one starts with "I can't seem to remember".
You failing to understand that speaks more of your ability to understand.
I do not need to clarify anything. You needed the clarification? Then ask for it.
And me needing to spell out the obvious to you further emphasize your reading comprehension problem.
I stand corrected. You are right.Originally Posted by KiSwordsman
You raised up techniques, which translates to jutsus.
Which is why I raised genjutsus.
Deny what? I addressed your 1000 technique and this - The fact that she has practically zero influence from him, Techniques or otherwise, Is a bunch of bull crap on his part. .Originally Posted by KiSwordsman
We kept going back and forth because you raised things beyond that which you attempted to counter.
Here, let me help you out (this is really becoming very tedious for me.):
First, no one is making an excuse. So your "counterargument" is already wrong from the start. I'm not even sure why you raised Sakura going to Tsunade.Quote:
2nd, you claim that Kakashi has zero influence to her. This is false. There is small influence thanks to the trainings and time spend doing missions. Saying zero is just downright lying.
3rd, closest to one means nothing. Kakashi is not a full time teacher. How many times must this be spelled out? He is a Jounin. He has other things to do. Again, beyond the scope of what you were trying to counter.
4th, team 7 were already doing missions together after Kakashi passed them(after the bell test). so what the hell are you blabbering about that 2 years and acted like not seeing her?
All those 4 points are not open for debate. They are not opinions. But feel free to even try.
Last edited by Toby_Temple; August 21, 2014 at 02:30 AM.
Due to Sakura being a medic it's not like Kakashi could've taught her anything because he knows nothing of medical techniques.
To answer your question and give you clarification: yes, Sakura is the designated medic of team seven. No, Kakashi did not know anything of medical techniques. That does not mean however that he could not teach her something outside of medical techniques. The last part added because the question started with "As for not teaching Sakura".
Deny my interpretation of your question.Quote:
You say that she's a medic therefore Kakashi couldn't have taught her because he wouldn't know much about medical techniques.
If that's not how you view things and you say nothing about my interpretation of it, of course I'm going to think that's how you view things and continue to go with with it. Due to it being text on a screen which is open for different interpretations.
You don't need to clarify anything, but you do it now after this entire thing? You can understand why I find that odd.
I even said, So I fail to see what I don't understand. If that was indeed it, that this was a simply question and not an implication that Kakashi could not teach her anything due to not having knowledge of any medical jutsu, why was clarification not given then? However, we kept going.
I said this had gotten tiresome at page ago, so you're not the only one. trust me.
- Refer to my initial interpretation of the post. The reason I brought up Tsunade was because you brought up Sakura being a medic
- I said practically zero, obvious comparison to what her two teammates got from Kakashi. It still accounts for the small influence he had with the minuscule amount of training in her regard and the missions. So no one's lying here.
- Remember, you brought the conversation to his tasks as a Jonin of Naruto and Sasuke. That was not me. You keep saying that I brought up things that I tried to counter and the only thing that is true for that was due to my interpretation of what you said and the vagueness of your statement regarding Itachi.
- During the bell test when she found him underground he didn't know that Tsunade had been instructing her in Taijutsu. Anyone that knew she was getting trained by Tsunade would know that she's getting trained in medical jutsu. However, for him not to be aware that she inherited Tsunade's "monstrous strength" would imply that they would have had little if any interaction with each other for the entire 2 1/2 years. Naruto also started doing missions with them so it's not like just because they started doing missions after the bell test it means anything. During the bell test he even made comments on their growth. Both of them not just Naruto.
We are literally arguing over our argument at this point so I vote we just end this here.
---------- Post added at 12:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:00 PM ----------
One could view it that way indeed. But that doesn't take into account the fact that two of his students are reincarnations of two of the people that started this whole mess, and the fact that all three of his students had to go to three different people to shape themselves as people. While that can be debated with Sasuke, and he deserves credit for Naruto's main technique at this point, (Rasenshuriken), it is undoubtedly true with Sakura.
Last edited by KiSwordsman; August 21, 2014 at 01:15 PM.
kakashi wasn't supposed to babysitting them or teaching them jutsu , he was just suppose to make them good killer ...
Now you're just blatantly lying. I asked if she was a medic. How stupid can you possibly to insist that a statement ending with a question mark is not a question?Originally Posted by KiSwordsman
Bullshit. You thought it was an argument. You. You even blatantly claim that it is somehow making an excuse. You. No one made you think that way except you.Originally Posted by KiSwordsman
Open to interpretation is just an excuse you are making now that it is clear you have a very serious reading comprehension problem.
So stop it already. You were wrong. End of discussion.
Refer to the above. After this entire discussion you just now claiming it to be a simple inquiry and nothing more comes across as backpedaling now that the discussion is over. This is true that the interpretation was indeed on me but I presented it to you far before this and you are just now bothering to clarify that it was a simple inquiry after so long of taking shots at me and not bothering to elaborate. I even tried to end the discussion peacefully, but no dice. You have been an absolute delight.Quote:
Last edited by KiSwordsman; August 22, 2014 at 10:33 AM.
But we have seen some of those 1,000 jutsu, and some of them could help Sakura. How does not burrowing underground help her? she can get close to her enemy or someone she needs to save this way, as well as dodge attacks at her.
I also remember that Kakashi did not have enough time for Sasuke to learn anything else, and he only taught Sasuke chidori because it was the best jutsu for the situation.
---------- Post added August 25, 2014 at 12:55 AM ---------- Previous post was August 23, 2014 at 11:31 AM ----------
Overall, it is Naruto who got a lot of things from Kakashi in team 7. Yes, Sakura had the least.
Last edited by Toby_Temple; August 28, 2014 at 03:24 AM.
And as I said, Jiraiya was able to teach Naruto how to break out of genjutsu, which is something. Kakashi could have focused on Sakura after Sasuke defected and Naruto left with Jiraiya and teach her things like jutsu and genjutsu. I'm sure she wasn't just limited to being trained by Tsunade.
How is an assumption for Kakashi to teach Sakura a jutsu that he has used in the manga? Naruto burrowed underground, but he hurt himself in doing so. Kakashi did not hurt himself, he disappeared without a trace, twice. Taijutsu can also be different, and Kakashi can have ways for Sakura to get in close and attack or dodge. Find ways to increase her speed and reflexes.
Kakashi is shown to be very reliant on his sharingan to get out of genjutsu.
So we can conclude that he is not on par with Jiraiya when it comes to genjutsu breaking without sharingan.
Even Sasuke only got chidori, only 1 jutsu from Kakashi. And Naruto is also in the same position as Sakura: Kakashi never taught him any of his jutsu.
I'm not 100% sure why the author made it that way.
I think it is to somehow mirror the 3 legendary Sannin.
Last edited by Toby_Temple; August 29, 2014 at 05:44 AM.