They're high-tier. Don't mess with them or you'll be sorry.
They're mid-tier. They're outstanding but so are every other captain.
They're low-tier. New generation surpasses the old.
Small picture.....if Aizen revealed his true strenght,no captain would have stand in front of him.
If Aizen make a duo with Gin,their power works complementary good and no couple would stand against them.
If SHinji teams up with anyone,everyone would die before even understanding what would happen...
If Tousen team up with everyone...
And I can keep on...
Shunsui and Ukitake are the only 2 that work as a team,so it's obvious that this kind of strenght stand above others for all the reason I have explained....
About Ukitake...well,he lived long cause he has always someone saving his a** and rarely went to action due to his illness.
An example??Rukia saved his a**.......not saying that he got pwned by WW that was faster then his reaction,damn even Shunsui and OldYama were shocked...
(And don't give me the talk...he doesn't fight kids,cause is not a valid argument to let someone impale u to death).
Also,if they lived for so long,why did they never been promoted to RG???strong but not enough I guess....
A strenght above the rest of the mass is one thing.Them being the strongest captains in the history of SS since the academy foundation or even before that is a totally different matter....being above average is totally different from this point...
And well,OldYama still refers to shinigami in SS and not other beings like arrancars / Vl / RG....
Don't limit your reasoning at the small picture because it's pointless..
Last edited by Yans86; April 21, 2010 at 08:25 AM.
^ So let me sum up your whole point- You basically went against the facts presented by the manga since you can't accept it. What a weak argument
Shunsui and uki are plenty strong even w/o their teamwork. That was made clear when yama stated that their strength were always a cut above the rest.
The teamwork is just icing on the cake.
Aizen revealing his true strength? The aizen that is getting owned now b/c he is fighting someone not under his illusion? The same aizen that needed the distraction created by hitsu to get a hit in on shunsui even though shunsui is under KS's influence. Aizen's onl advantage was that he had all of SS under hypnosis from the start. Had he fought with someone like uki, shunsui, unohana, or yama w/o them being hypnotized first, he would be in trouble
As long as Shunsui was under KS's influence, the opening is frankly irrelavant. I agree that Shunsui isn't overrated, but saying he Aizen only landed a shot because of Hitsugaya's distraction is underrating Aizen. Had Shunsui not made the mistake of letting his guard down, which is his mistake and not something you can blame on someone else, at that moment with Aizen's illusions it simply would have happened at a different time.
Also, we can't underrate Aizen because he uses his illusions to beat his opponents, the illusions are part of his power. The better argument is to say how limited his illusions are if it is as easy as Isshin is making it seem to not see the release of his zanpakuto. Or perhaps how limited the illusions themselves are as a battle tactic against a singular opponent.
All i was saying is that in regards to Aizen, had they not been under the influence of KS from the start, it woould have been different since it seems using KS in battle seems to be nearly impossible
I do think that Aizen isn't leagues above everyone else in this story. Whether or not this is the case will depend on Isshin's actual relative strength to everyone else. If he pops up and calls Unohana or Shunsui "senpai" when he sees them, you can bet your ass KS was the reason for Aizen's potency in combat.
Shunsui and Ukitake are definitely overrated by their fans. Aizen would beat Shunsui, if it was a 1 on 1 battle without shikai's. Haven't seen Ukitake do much, but if he's the same level as Shunsui, Aizen's likely to beat him just as fast.
Your not making much sense dude. How do you figure Shunsui can beat Aizen because Isshin can? There's the possibility Isshin is just stronger than Shunsui and that's why he can beat Aizen.
Why do you think the Hougyoku increased Aizen's speed? Nobody implied that.
Last edited by En Yang Ji; April 23, 2010 at 10:02 AM.
I like Shunsui, but saying that he would beat Aizen if he didn't have KS is just stupid.
Aizen is a guy that owned 4 captain class oponents without even using his shikai in a matter of seconds.
In case you are forgotten, Aizen easily blocked/dodged all attemps on Shunsui's attacks without his Shikai, except the one with the help of Hitsugaya.
But, Shunsui + ukitake vs Aizen, without Shikai, Hogyoku and no disease for Ukitake, I guess that they would have a significant chance at beating him IMO.
@Cloudo, while the Hogyoku grants it's users wishes, it didn't increase Aizen's speed or power in any away, otherwise he wouldn't have said that he reached the limit of his shinigami self(which he had already reached) and only against Isshin is when it understtod Aizen's will and started to transform him, also, when Shunsui hit Aizen, he was using his Shikai, if you want to make it fair, take the shikai from both of them.
Last edited by hakuthehedgehog; April 23, 2010 at 11:08 AM.
Utterly speedblitz hitsugaya from the from without using an illusion.
Trash komamura with a failed kido
This speaks VOLUMES of the sheer amount of raw power aizen has. A failed kido without an incantation which did not even reach a third of its intended power is already enough to take a captain out of commision. granted aizen did use his illusion to make an opening. Even yamamoto with a fully functional spell which cost him his arm and probably his life did not do this much damage -granted aizen was healed by the orb shortly after the hit-.
Grimmjow is a captain level guy and he still got grounded by aizen's sheer reiatsu
Even if grimmjow wasn't the top espada he is still someone a captain would have trouble defeating. Luppi did give hitsugaya some trouble and it is quite clear grimmjow was much stronger than him.
Then we have aizen stopping ichigo's bankai barehanded and taking wave after wave of captain level attacks without breaking a sweat and being able to react to hirako's shikai. Aizen's physical capacities and reiatsu are clearly much greater than any captain except yamamoto.