I was also quite annoyed that he seemed to not see our AMs getting kicked/stomped on.
Yeah, everyone except Howard Webb (and even he knows now) that it was a dive. I actually respected the fact that Wenger didn't pull the, "I didn't see it" or the "there was a lot of contact" and said that "Cazorla said that he was touched," but that really meant that Wenger wasn't very happy with Cazorla. Sure, it got Arsenal a goal, but it wasn't the type of football that Wenger wants played.
---------- Post added December 10, 2012 at 01:39 AM ---------- Previous post was December 09, 2012 at 09:09 PM ----------
On the same day that Messi hits two to break Muller's record, Falcao does three better by hitting five against lowly Deportivo la Coruna, and even though they're lowly, when Barca played them, it took two goals from Messi to win an awful defensive match 5-4.
Last edited by FrostyMouse; December 09, 2012 at 09:15 PM.
I, as an Argentinian, got mad at him every time he played with our selection because he wasn't as good as in Barcelona (we were like ¨he only scores because he has Iniesta and Xavi¨) and he just shut our mouths the last 2 years. He's awesome in Barcelona, he's awesome in Argentina. He has been the best player (without a single doubt, Ronaldo is just a midget compared to him) in the last 5 or 6 years, a whole era (and I don't think any other player made that before).
He's playing in modern football days (not Pelé's days, were 6-2 was a normal score and regular formations included 4 strikers) and yet, everytime you watch him play, you know he'll score. You know he has something hidden. His team might be losing the match and BUM, Messi explodes the ball in half a second and the match is over.
I never was a Messi fan before (and I still think I'm not), but come on, not a single person can be compared to him in terms of football, he's simply a beast.
Maradona was amazing, yes, but his highlight was the 86' and no one remembers anything besides that.
Pelé? He played in the 60's, a complete different game (and there are barely enough videos to know how good he was).
And don't say ¨He won't be the best until he wins a World Cup¨ because that's BS, that's not something he can win alone. Cruyff didn't need a WC to be the legend he is, neither did Van Basten nor Baggio (and the list goes on). In fact, if Messi wasn't Argentinian (if he was, I don't know, American or Japanese for example) no one would give a F@CK about him not winning a World Cup.
I'm glad that I'm able to see him play, as no one will ever be as good as him (unless we start mating with aliens). There won't be another Messi, and that's actually a bit sad. We should just enjoy watching him do his thing.
Messi is the best football player in this Galaxy's history. Period.
Last edited by Hardy; December 10, 2012 at 02:45 AM.
Hardy, as great as Messi has been, and I admit that he's the best player in history, if I had to pick one player throughout history for one decisive match, I'd pick Zidane over Messi nine times out of 10. The one thing that I think detracts from Messi is that a lot of his goals and accomplishments have come against far inferior teams. On the biggest stages, Messi just hasn't always performed and if I need one player to get it done for me, I'll trust Zidane over Messi (even though Zidane's not a striker, he came up bigger than anyone else in the big matches), except on the two days in his career where people got under his skin with racial comments and he lost his head, the second time literally.
Is that really something that you should be able to say about someone who you admit is the best player in history? If Messi had shown it on all stages at all times, I wouldn't have those doubts, but I do because he hasn't. One huge thing that I can point at in Messi's career is that he has not scored against Chelsea. In eight matches now, it just hasn't happened. Even with the best chance of his career, a penalty, he couldn't get it done last season and was a big part of Barca getting dumped out of the CL. I just think that the best player in history should not have that type of bogey side.
What do you want him to do in that match? Chelsea had 11 players inside their goal, every single person criticized their play style and said ¨they might win this, but that won't last too much¨ and look how Chelsea is nowadays.
2008/2009. Chelsea played awfully again.
Messi has 3 people around him, he chokes, loses the ball and Barcelona is out...
Wait no, this happened:
2006/2007: Messi played so well that Chelsea fans and journalists got crazy and started topics like this:
And here you have the ratings of that match, also in The Sun:
And the other match... I don't remember it, sorry.
Hardy, I don't know if you were watching the same matches, but Messi was generally awful against Chelsea.
In 08/09, Chelsea completely stifled Messi for the entire tie and made him look very average. A corrupt ref didn't give us four penalties and then one moment where Iniesta bends a magical ball that Cech's unsighted for gave the tie to Barca in like the 93rd minute.
Last season, in the first match, at the Bridge, Messi gave away the ball poorly, which led to our goal. I'm not saying that it makes him a bad player at all, just that he's never struggled against one team that much.
Hardy, I was referring to the 86 goals. How many of those goals came against good teams? It's an amazing record, something we never thought could be done (breaking Mueller's record), but the La Liga isn't always that competitive. Messi's not going to get as many goals in the Premier League or Serie A, for example. Some Bundesliga sides just capitulate and lose 5-2 or 7-0 a bunch of times per year, so there's a chance it could happen there.
All I'm saying is that, while I admit that he's the best player in history, there are some gaping chinks in his armor.
Urm...When did I say he wasnt. My point was he can already be compared to Cruyff and Van basten but they are not considered the best players to play the game. The only two who have claim to that title has always been Pele and Maradona. Usually people go with the former, but whatever you say if Messi doesn't win a world cup that will always hang over his head. Those "rankings" no matter how arbitary they are, will always be skewed in the favour of those players who have football most famous and prestigious award. He doenst have to win it to be acknowledged as one of the greatest players, but he does if he wants to be as the greatest. If he cannot perform in 2014 or 2018 (maybe even 2022), then he will never topple those two.
Has he broken Raul's CL record yet?
Until he does that, he's not the best in history
What team does Raul play for now?! Or has he officially retired after Schalke!?
All I got to say at present is...RVP.
What an ending to a derby.
Well, if Tevez didn't leave the wall, Nasri doesn't stick out a foot that deflects the ball after having hid behind the player next to him, and Hart doesn't sneak over to the wall side of the goal, even though he knows that RVP prefers to hit the ball to the keeper side of the goal, it wouldn't have happened. All three of those things needed to go right for RVP there.
Are you really saying that RVP > Messi?
Last edited by FrostyMouse; December 11, 2012 at 07:12 PM.
I never said anything about Messi.
And yes, I can agree that LFP isn't THAT competitive (and I'm pretty sure that Müller's Bundesliga wasn't either), but he scored goals to some important teams...
Teams like Bilbao, both Madrids, Valencia, Milan, Uruguay, Brazil, Germany and many others...
2nd- I still don't agree that he has to win a TEAM championship to be considered the best ever (again, if he was American or Japanese no one would say that).
Last edited by Hardy; December 12, 2012 at 07:21 PM.