Singles Tier List
Only characters that had at least one match (or currently have one) are to be ranked. For Doubles, only players that played together before may be ranked.
Concerning the Tier Lists for Prefecturals, Tokyo, Kanto and Nationals, the above criteria apply to the given time frame.
Last edited by Kaoz; June 18, 2014 at 02:20 AM.
It's like Duke Homerun and 108th Hadokyuu, it looks similar, and they are both strong. but if we looks at the tier of characters that get wipe by it, we can determine the characters tier.
In this case, Renji at the beginning of SPoT have to be stronger than Yagyuu, or else Yagyuu will be a part of big three instead. It wouldn't make sense to me that Yagyuu will be stronger than Renji.
Laser beam speed is answerable by Kikumaru. How high in the tier do you consider Kikumaru to be? The reason Yagyuu is saving that curved laser at the very last shot is to surprise Niou and that paid off.
And the curving speed is not as fast as you think it is. It have a lot of delay. Look here,
No matter how fast you say that, it's going to be fair bit of time before it turn. Of course, this can be due to Konomi's mistake. But it is something that we should take into consideration. Howver, there's not only that. If you look, there's a huge difference between Yagyuu's tech and Kaidoh's tech. Yagyuu beam travel fairly a long distance in straight line. It curved at the last minute, I think this is due to how fast laser beam is said to be, which unfortunately in this case is acually a downfall. By traveling a huge % in of the path in the same way as laser beam give the opponents a huge drawback. Other high tier characters will simply lol at this and kill Yagyuu. I They both will works the same only if the opponents are at the back of the court. However, Kaidoh's combination is more advantageous if the opponents is in mid court or the net. And yes, that's a lot more brutal.
Just in case you might say it, I don't think it's fine to assume that he can curve the shot at anytime he wants to, because we don't see that in the manga.
Also, the tech working against No Illusion! Niou once because he save it to surprise Niou the last shot is nothing compare to dominating both Kirihara and Yagyuu for a game. Like I say before, No Illusion! Niou is as weak as crap. He would get serve by 5th counter Fuji the same way that Fuji was mope by Shiraishi in the semifinal. This suggests to me that No Illusion! Niou as well as Yagyuu is around 4 counter! Fuji and where Kenya is at best. Niou is high up in the tier right now because he use Illusion.
So that's my answer.
Last edited by -Ken-; February 27, 2013 at 10:54 AM.
It's pretty clear in the final round of the nationals there's sort of this massive power giveaway just because it's the final round. Kaidoh is said to be 'invinicible' with his combo. Fuji's biggest priase is only 'genius', and I'm pretty sure invinicible is a much higher level than genius even if POT's commentors generally cannot be trusted for anything. Kaidoh is at least competitive, possibly better, than Kirihara in the original devil form that had no drawbacks (stamina can't possibly be an issue if he came back from near death at 0-5 to 7-5 against Krauser). Don't forget he can also get devil form himself. In fact I think it's pretty hilarious that Inui and the Seigaku coach stopped Kaidoh before he can keep devil form. Here's what we've seen Seigaku is totally okay with:
Kawamura getting air comboed by Hadoballs versus Gin
Tezuka risking his career (multiple times)
Ryoma getting blinded/deaf by Yukimura
Fuji got blinded by Kirihara
Momoshiro ram his head on a pillar
But a technique that has no apparent physical drawback must be stopped because your hair turns gold and you start making ominous evil laughs.
Honestly Kaidoh is so powerful at the end that if he kept devil form, I wouldn't be surrpised if he just turns around and defeated Tezuka. Of course he doesn't get to keep devil form and I sure don't see him using the curved laser in NPoT, so presumably he's back to his normal tier now.
Last edited by Phantron; February 27, 2013 at 12:54 PM.
This shows that regardless of the speed, this shot is dangerous and not easy to return.
I don't know who you think Kaidoh is, but he did it for one game against Yanagi/Kirihara pair.
You're jumping the gun if you're going to directly assume that Kaidoh can beat Yanagi in Singles by relying on that combo.
We can confirm that Kaidoh stunned Yanagi for a game. and would do so for at least another one or two.
This means we have no reason to assume Yagyuu at the U-17 Camp would not stun Yanagi for a game or two since Curving Laser and Laserbeam is the same threat as Gyro Laser and Tornado snake.
I think you're forgetting that Tornado Snake is piss-easy to return. Konjiki shat on it and he had never seen it before.
Kirihara did the same despite never seeing it.
so Kaidoh has only ONE great shot. Which is only dangerous because it is hidden by Tornado Snake.
Yagyuu has only ONE great shot just like Kaidoh.
Look at the link I showed. It most certainly doesn't look as if it curves just at the baseline.
and I just want to ask you why seem to think Yanagi can sprint from one side of the court to the other side of the court, then back again since you think he will lol at this.
---------- Post added at 02:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:51 PM ----------
Also, Yanagi doesn't need to move back and forth. Read what I say. Curved laser curve only start to curve at mid court. If Yanagi or any other player intercept the move at the net or mid court, it's the exact same path as laser beam until it hit mid court. That's a fatal drawback. And I mention this already. Why would someone like Renji be stupid enough not to hit the ball before it change its path? It's like Tsubame Gaeshi, really. How to beat it? Hit the ball before it hit the ground. Kaidoh differs in he shows that he can curve Tornado snake wherever he wants on the court. If Kikumaru can hit back normal laser when he's near the net, many characters can too.
Also, that's some artistic error there for certain, because look here.
The first one show that the laser doesn't start off as a curve, but as a normal laser. Note that the ball position seemly change between page 3 and 4. Both of this page shows that curve laser path start off the same way as laser. Laser speed is scary, but in this case, it's a downfall because it caused more time before the ball is curve.
But page 20 and page 3 both of which seem to suggests the laser path in page 4 is inaccurate. Page 4 path just show that the ball curve. Not only that, but clearly until it turn at the last moment, all spectators comment heavily suggests that they see the ball as a straight line until it curve at the last moment. Unless Yagyuu can make a "Illusion Path". Illusion Path will indeed be a cool tech, but I think they'll mention it more if it can actually do that.
Last edited by -Ken-; February 28, 2013 at 01:40 AM.
I think Yagyuu only did a normal curving shot in the game against Niou. The basic snake shot is pretty trivial to do for any high tier player. It only worked on Niou because Niou got tricked into thinking Yagyuu is going to use the laser.
There's a lot of support for that, too. Looks at the amount of speech before the ball curve. There's amount of quote unseen before in any moments that laser is used. I looked back at the match with golden pair, and it seem that speed of laser is really rather fast. There's usually very few out of thought line between the time laser is used and laser is hit back. It seemed to suggest that the curved ball would be slower than actual laser.
If you would add this factor to above pages that show the ball path before it's curved, things really doesn't look good for Yagyuu.
Here's some comparison with Kaidoh and Fuji move, in case it's actual laser curved.
Kaidoh combo/Yagyuu combo
0. They both have stance that will signal the opponent that the move will happens.
1. Kaidoh move curve faster in his own court, forcing the opponents to have 50% chance to hit the ball always.
2. Yagyuu move curve half way through his opponents court, giving opponents time to react to it. If the opponents fail to reach the ball by the time it reach his/her (mostly his) half court, the opponent THEN have 50% to pick where the ball go.
3. Gyro laser is pure faster than laser.
Fuji's Honou Gaeshi/Yagyuu combo
0. They both have stance that will signal the opponent that the move will happens.
1. For phoenix, if the opponent doesn't hit the ball near the net, it's point
2. For Yagyuu combo, the opponents have until mid court, and then, if he fail, it's 50% chance of winning a point.
Last edited by -Ken-; February 27, 2013 at 08:39 PM.
You argue an excellent case for Kaidoh.
He goes above Yagyuu then. I can't disprove what you've said.
It makes sense the idea of Kaidoh > Yagyuu to me now.
Although I hope others can argue a case against it.
I just want to add in, that in terms of stats besides Stamina nothing suggests Kaidoh is better than Yagyuu in anything.
I want to add in that GP without Synchro are a superior pair to Inui/Kaidoh w/out Gyro Laser.
So Yagyuu/Niou were up against a good pair.
Kaidoh has overpowered Hiyoshi/Mukahi. Mukahi is as just as you say, cancer on the tennis court. Hiyoshi was a good player with stamina that is a joke.
Kaidoh was up against two players with famously awful stamina. Not people with standard stamina.
I've never been impressed with Kaidoh up until Gyro Laser.
Last edited by Airgrimes; February 28, 2013 at 12:16 PM.
It's not knowing which direction the ball wil go. How does Kaidoh combo works?
Just some tidbits
Cancer do have cancer. But as I mention before, it's not really shown that Hiyoshi actually have bad stamina in PoT until Atobe mention it in SPoT because of Hiyoshi match with Echizen.
In terms of stats, the thing is that you only have accomplishment and feat to have your base stats on. 1st Stringer and other HSes have it easy. Yagyuu "base stats", however, is shown to be close with No Illusion! Niou.
Now, Niou is a freakin beast. But that's due to his Illusion. He is clear limited by his illusion. Otherwise, why can't he use Kabaji strength in his Tezuka illusion or Hyakuren in Kabaji illusion? If Niou doesn't use his illusion, he's mid tier at best. We've seen 3 match from No Illusion! Niou, one against Yagyuu, golden pair, and first half against Fuji.
Now, against Golden Pair, Golden Pair clearly had the double bonus things going on, so we can't go too far off that.
However, against Fuji...
He get owned, hard.
Not using illusion does matter. Why? Looks at couples of player do have a tech but somehow don't decide to use it.
Kamio barely beat Shinji although he had Beast Aura.
Sanada lost to Echizen although he had freakin Rai. He would have stomp Echizen hard. 6-0, period. Well, back then, at least.
Not using tech does nerf the player. And in case of Niou, we do saw where he is without Illusion. It looks as if he on the way of losing to Fuji 6-0.
If we takes that into accounts, we can see that what's hyping Yagyuu as High tier are Niou match with him. But since Niou doesn't use Illusion, the tech that puts him on the high tier level, there's nothing that shows Yagyuu is high tier other than fan hyping him to be high tier level.
As far as Niou/Yagyuu pair go, we do saw the mini shot of it at Kantou final. In that match, Niou's laser a little bit slower than Yagyuu. So with the upgrade he had in SPoT, we can assume that he becomes the same.
So... the players had to deal with... 2 Yagyuu? Both that had same tech flaw? Atobe syncho was scary due to it expanding his insight grealy to the point where he's crazy tier. What's scary about syncho is that you had to deal with not knowing where the opponents will hit. I guess 2 possible laser in different direcrion could be scary, but if you think about it, that's very similar to what Kaidoh did right now, except that Kaidoh did all of it solo. (Yes, there's some minor difference. Gyro laser is faster than laser while Tornado Snake is slower than laser, but had a harder to hit path than normal laser. But all in all, its pretty similar)
Kabaji doesn't have Hyakku Ren Jitoku...
5thCounter!Fuji would wipe the floor completely with Kaidoh without Gyro Laser. 6-0 or 6-1 at best for Kaidoh.
4thCounter is the perfect solution to the Snakes.
Kaidoh has no good achievements. He took out Higa fodder by himself.
The Higa members who DIDN'T even have Shukuchiho. Nothing to care about. Regardless of wrist weights.
He used a stamina trap against Hiyoshi and Cancer who have weak stamina... had Hiyoshi or Mukahi's stamina stat been even slightly higher by 0.5 we could have had an embarassing loss for Seigaku.
That's a win had he not been 5 love down.
Well then where do you have Kenya and Yagyuu in relation to Kirihara and Nakagauchi?
Since Kenya is by where Yushi would be, but Kaidoh is by where Kirihara is.
---------- Post added March 02, 2013 at 07:31 PM ---------- Previous post was February 28, 2013 at 01:35 PM ----------
I'll probably rank them something along this line.
I'm unsure about the the order of top 3 and unsure about the order of bottom 3. But if I were to make a ranking, it'll be something along this line. Funnily enough, due to the flaw I point out earlier about laser path, Kenya actually may have decent chance at beating Yagyuu.
4ball isn't 10ball. I don't think the tier difference arrives until 10ball is attained.
As pretty much cited in Tooyama VS Oni.
Yuushi to bt Kenya with the letter tennis and Closed Mind. Kenya can be beaten with hidden drop shots. Shiraishi has perfect form so Kenya can't do anything, but Yushi's Closed Mind shouldn't be understimated. He took six straight games off of Nationals!Momoshiro.
Nationals!Momoshiro > Tiebreak!Momo because Tie-break momo faced Oni and forgot he had Nature Insight.
Something which makes no sense to me as Nature Insight is fantastic.
Yagyuu VS Nakagauchi is a good one to discuss.
Considering Nakagauchi stays in one spot, surely the Laser combo will unsettle him into moving around breaking his Robot stance?
And if Kirihara was hopeless against the Laser combo, why would he not be helpless against Yagyuu? Its the same threat. Its only that Gyro Laser is an amazing shot.
Remember that Tornado and Gyro move in the same direction whilst Curving Laser sharply swerves.