Ichigo would kick both their rears (Cannot decide/tie)
Ok this is pretty straight forward. If some of you would just discard Isshin right away (and I imagine most would), I would like to set the fight with power limited to what has been shown so far. That would mean no imaginary bankais or untold powers. Isshin hasn't shown much so far, and this is probably too early of an estimation, but considering how well he stood up to Aizen (better than the old man), I would say that he could at least rival Yama-ji.
Both are ridiculously strong in terms of physical strength and extremely capable sword fighters. None of the shikai moves Yamamoto pulled out so far would have too much of an edge over Isshin's brutal Getsuga (in terms of power).
I know it's been said that Yama is the most powerful shinigami in the last thousand years, but we don't know if that accounts for the Royal Guards, and there is some rumour Isshin may be one of them, with his mysterious mystery history and weird uniform. My bet so far would in fact go to Isshin, even though I'm a Yama fan.
So, what do you guys think?
Last edited by Xsoteria; June 12, 2010 at 06:03 PM.
I think Yamamoto would win quite comfortably. Isshin did well against Aizen because he wasn't under hypnosis, Yamamoto without RJ would have demolished Aizen without KS. Yamamoto took a barrage of punches from one of strongest arrancars (most probably stronger than Stark, WW defeated bankai Kensei) and laughed it off. He proceeded to destroy the very same arrancar who had hierro(=steel skin) and crazy regeneration with his bare hands. I didn't see any other physical strength feat that remotely rivals Yamamoto's, Isshin doesn't stand a chance against him. Only Godzen and Ichigo super form (that will defeat Godzen) are better.
P.S. Even if Isshin is a RG, it doesn't mean he is stronger. Was Hikifune stronger than Yamamoto too? I guess only the captain (and perhaps VC) of zero division is stronger than Yamamoto and he/she's over 1000 years old.
The difference is clear, at least to me. Isshin was able to play with Aizen for a little bit, but Isshin isn't under the effects of Kyoka Suigetsu.
Yamamoto, who is, "purposefully" took a knife in the torso, had his zanpakutou ability sealed, destroyed Wonderweiss with his bare hands, and was blown up by his own ridiculous power (which still didn't entirely kill him). Then he activated a powerful kidou, which is still blows Isshin's Getsuga (and everything else Isshin did) out of the water.
Not to mention Yamamoto can make a shinigami foam at the mouth with just a stare.
Isshin is tough and all, but Yamamoto would butter him and eat him for breakfast.
KS was there more as a fear factor than anything else, it seems to me. It didn't really hinder Yamamoto in any way (other than the selfimpalement, which hardly left a trace on him).
Also I would like to note that Yama's kido did considerably lesser damage to Aizen than Getsuga Tenshou. And on top of that, Aizen was in his fusion mode.
Yamamoto - this man shines as the old grumpy man who spams flame. Don't really like him though. I don't see Isshin beating this guy. On the note:
Even the Zero Division probably won't be able to best him (own opinion) - cuz if he's the strongest shinigami in all 1000 years, how could Zero Division, formed of former captains who are weaker than Yamamoto (I guess) be able to beat him?Quote:
mehh I don't know whether we'll able to see Aizens Bankai but it probably will be something like erasing/distorting memories ¬¬
I love Isshin's character, he's like a kooler version of Ichigo
but in terms of Vs. against Old man Yama, from what Isshin has shown so far, I don't really see him having a chance against Yama, he might give yama a "true test" without lil tricks that Aizen pulled etc, but at the end of this battle Isshin is on the ground and Yama is calling him a "kid"
Aizen didn't fight Yamamoto, he stabbed him once, got caught and then WW interfered. If Yamamoto wasn't under hypnosis, he wouldn't have let Aizen stab him and then gone kamikaze, he would have fought Aizen in normal ways just like Isshin did. And if Isshin was under hypnosis, Aizen could have defeated him just like he defeated other captains, I don't think Isshin could have done any better than other captains against KS.
As you can see, KS is relevant and WW is also relevant because WW interfered and saved Aizen. Unless you argue that Isshin is also strong enough to shrug off barrage of punches from WW and then defeat him with his bare hands, I don't think we can say Isshin is stronger. RJ is the strongest zanpakuto, it means something, doesn't it?
But hey people have they're opinion and such, but we've seen more impressive feats from gramps then Isshin so far IMO, though Isshin's GT on "GOD" Aizen was pretty damn impressive, still in my mind Yama > any members of the current and possibly former Gotei 13 (not counting H4X Aizen..he get saved by plot)
Another post by "Gran Maestro" above mentioned the RG and he's right on that part as well, I mean unless the RG recruited a Captain Comm. from 2000+ years ago then Yama (which could be the case since the "King's key" location is only passed from one Captain Comm to the next, who could very well be the guy who heads up the RG,we'll see I guess) should infact be more powerful then the majority of them.
And hell we haven't even got a notion of evidence of how powerful Yama's bankai is (its not in this scenario) even though its probably just more fire but if his RJ makes captains sweat, what do you think his bankai is capable of.....-Isshin- "clean up Ichigo, my pants"
Last edited by Katz; June 13, 2010 at 04:18 AM.
Unless of course, you argue that the reason Aizen kicked all of the other captain's asses is because he was using KS while fighting them, and not because they're just that weaker than him. Which really is baseless assumption, since Kubo never implied that.
I would also argue that Isshin has shown some real heavy endurance, at least compared to Yoruichi and Urahara. While they're knocked out cold, Isshin got back up in a matter of seconds. And I believe that the wooping he got from GodAizen is a much more serious than anything WW could dish out. Unless you argue that WW fought harder than GodAizen or something
So that's endurance.
I think this is a good indicator at what would Isshin do to WW with his bare hands.
But that is rather irrelevant as I doubt they would choose to enter some fistfight when they could use their zanpakutos (although with limited techniques shown so far).
Last edited by Xsoteria; June 13, 2010 at 07:18 AM.
Yamamoto's shikai is strong enough to create a captain-killing armegeddon:
Nuff said, that's only his shikai too.
Let me give an example: Suppose that I pointed a gun at you and tied you up. You argue that the gun is irrelevant in your being tied up because I didn't use the gun to shoot at you, I only threatened to use it. Aizen was holding a gun when he was against Yamamoto, Aizen wasn't holding a gun when he was against Isshin, the presence of a gun changes everything and as long as there's a gun, the gun is relevant.
And if you think GT seems more impressive than RJ's flames that can destroy multiple cities, I can't say I agree with you. Avoiding RJ is much harder than GT and RJ is more destructive.
I also don't agree with the fact that he used KS to beat up the captains, since it's pretty obvious that he's a beast, and I think Kubo would at least give us a hint that KS helped him defeat them. Since he didn't that's really just an assumption with no real basis. Of course, you could be right I suppose, but right now I don't see any reason to believe that.
So far, we can't really tell any difference between their endurance. But lets introduce your 3rd variable.
Yamamoto's own attack was perhaps the strongest and it knocked him out of the fight (killed him? Hopefully not). What does that change?
It just means that there needs to be something really powerful to knock the old man out. Since in this case, moderately powerful attack didn't really knock out Isshin, I would say that there needs to be something really powerful to knock him out, as well.
That sort of brings us to about the same estimation.
Last edited by Xsoteria; June 13, 2010 at 12:11 PM.