they both die
Naruto pierced himself with the rods, rather than being stabbed...considering how he broke the rod when Pain went for it, it's possible that Naruto can increase/decrease his defense (preparing for an attack, whether to block an attack or allow an attack). And your surprise explanation doesn't explain the chameleon.Quote:
Eh, Sasuke has prediction abilities, as well as the destructive output to penetrate Jiraiya, even though IIRC Jiraiya didn't show any great defense in Sage Mode. Additionally, he's fought with people definitely faster than Jiraiya, and despite you saying that Jiraiya's vastly more skilled in Taijutsu...do we even have evidence that he's vastly more skilled in Taijutsu? What taijutsu skill did Jiraiya show against Pain? At any rate, the Sharingan alone allows a ninja inferior in taijutsu to perform at a higher level than he normally could.Quote:
Still, as I said before Sasuke has his chances, of course ( I doubt that, except against the actual Naruto, Madara and Tobi Sasuke will have major trouble fighting anyone ), still Taijutsu shouldn't be a chance
Still, if the ability is granted by the rods, it is because it requires a costant stream of chakra, thus, removed the rods, the Rin'negan too should've been removed.Quote:
Very much like Tobi couldn't control the bijuus without it. And without the rods, the Rin'negan was still in Animal Path's eyes
Simple, because it isn't simple "learning any jutsu like normal", is istantly learning any jutsu, like Jiraiya said about Nagato:Quote:
he, Nagato, learned at once every jutsu Jiraiya taught him. And the Sharingan does not copy istantly, or rather if the sharingan user hasn't the skill to use the attack, then the sharingan is useless. Take Sasuke, despite his sharingan it required an entire month to learn and perfect the Chidori, along the Lee's speed, which still tired him greatly.
And it still requires a natural affinity
Naruto and Bee hardly put any fight since they were overwhelmed by Nagato, simple as that.
And Itachi put up a fight because he cut away the connection, and he striked when Nagato was already busy with Naruto and Bee. When you have your hands full with the 2 strongest Jinchuuriki, I doubt you have any chance to fight evenly another Kage-level ninja.
You're being too unfair to Nagato here, he still didn't had any problem to solo 2 Jinchuuriki which have arguably the same speed ( or even slightly higher ) and much more power than Itachi did.
Itachi was clever, as usual, and exploited all the opening Nagato left
Still, no one was able to sense him inside the chameleon even Naruto with his "evil sensor" ( and Kabuto was controlling Nagato and aiming to greatly hurt both Bee and Naruto, thus I believe he had definitely evil intenction ) couldn't.
You believe that Naruto can increase/decrease his defence while Jiraiya couldn't, why?Quote:
The fact remains that it isn't a matter of decence Jiraiya breaking Sasuke's sword, it's a matter of offence, Sasuke going for the stab and Jiraiya breaking his weapon in half.
Or what, Jiraiya doesn't have the super strenght too? Its ok to assume that Jiraiya's Sage Mode isn't the same of Naruto, but to pratically treat it like it was some downrated ability instead of a game winner which is it ( in the manga at least ), I find that quite unbelievable
Oh gee I don't know, a single kick blinded one of the paths, just to name one of Jiraiya's "feats", and the rest wasn't possible thanks to the Rin'negan connection, which I'm discussing with Rikudou.Quote:
And now I ask you, what are Sasuke's feats in taijutsu against faster opponents?
I will tell you:
-against a blinded and weakened Itachi, he had to use Ninjutsu after Itachi beat him up good
-against Bee, he was destroyed despite having the Sharingan
-against the Raikage, I don't even go there
-Against Danzou he did good, but Danzou wasn't a Taijutsu beast, and had at best the same speed of Sasuke
So you'll excuse me if I think that, against an opponent like Jiraiya in Sage Mode, Sasuke doesn't stand a chance in Taijutsu and related skills
The same reason why I don't believe Jiraiya can sense to the extent that Naruto can. Additionally, are you going to say that he lowered his guard when Animal Path charged in and stabbed him? He should've known at that point of the fight to keep his defense up at all times, yet he was still stabbed.Quote:
To be frank, even though he kicked the crap out of Human Path when he caught him off guard, the second strike he performed on Human Path was caught with 1 hand...additionally, unlike Naruto (who explicitly stopped the charging rhino and tossed it in the air), we don't know if it was Jiraiya or Ma/Pa who got rid of the ram summon, IIRC.Quote:
Kage Bunshins can all see an opponent at the same time, yet Sasuke/Kimimaro/Neji had no problem dealing with multiple KBs. I'm still not completely impressed with the shared vision, outside of the summons also sharing in it, but I might be misunderstanding the ability. I would think with KB though, since they're all essentially the same person, that they would all see everything (despite possible information overload).Quote:
Itachi fought with Bee and Naruto at the same time, and never showed problems with Kakashi in taijutsu...it's not exactly a negative feat to be beaten up by Itachi, lol...not to mention that including the shuriken combat, Sasuke actually came out on top.Quote:
Bee is an actual taijutsu specialist with his own style of sword-fighting that we haven't seen replicated. He reacted to Hiraishin twice, and actually stated that outside of A, no one else had dodged the 8-tails attack that he performed on Sasuke. Bee respected Sasuke's abilities.
Raikage is OP.
Keep in mind though that even someone with the same speed stat as him (Deidara) quickly decided that close-range combat was a no go. Keep in mind also that a worn Sasuke was able to fight with Kakashi, who is also skilled in taijutsu.
Jiraiya in SM simply doesn't have the feats that Naruto does in SM, so I can't assign him that level of combat strictly on him having SM. Naruto has shown exceptional sensing ability, strength, and frog katas, while Jiraiya noted that his SM was still incomplete (IIRC), and it's explicitly stated that Naruto's SM > Jiraiya's SM. I actually like Jiraiya and am a little annoyed that Naruto mastered SM that quickly, but thems the breaks, I guess.
Side note: I actually would've liked to see Itachi vs. Nagato 1v1 (using Pain and not using Pain), because I think Itachi gives him a good fight and possibly wins both, with the using Pain fight being the more difficult one.
LOL @ Jiraiya cant sense. The reason why Jiraiya cant sense anymore because he turn off his Barrier after he turn into sage mode.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-380-3/...apter-375.html <- This is the barrier im talking about, If jiraiya had this the whole time, jiraiya would win the battle even after the another 3 did sneak attack.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-380-5/...apter-375.html <- Just read what Pain said LOL
But kishi turn that ability off, To insure jiraiya would die and in order for Naruto to grow stronger.
U do know that Shima can also detect enemy, But the point here u dont actually have activated all the time (Shima was activating her sensing when she's trying to find out where Pain is.). Just like all Sensor user out there, they don't have it 24/7 Sensing. U can even clearly see it on Karin when she trying to find danzou, she turn off her sensor in order not to be found by Shi. So the moment jiraiya killed those 3 pain, of course they dont have their guard up anymore or Shima sensor.
That Jiraiya barrier ability is bad ass and wide range if Naruto posses that too and have it turn on all the time. Its like 360 degree sensor LOL.
Who ever said Sasuke eye is "Mixed" with Itachi eyes, their wrong.
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v59/c574/15.html <- Simply explain that his eyes isn't his own eye.
We now witness Sasuke with his EMS his amterasu change, he now simply dont create it out of nowhere. He simply throw amaterasu LOL.
Jiraiya start with sage mode -> frog call instant. paralyze and use swamp (render susanoo)
Last edited by Lemonadez; February 15, 2012 at 10:04 AM.