A fully resolve Ichigo that defeated Byakuya and Kenpachi versus Ichimaru who has intent to kill and does not fool around. In this match up, Ichigo is free from mind fucking and can also benefit a help from his hollow like what he needed to beat kenpachi and byakuya.. Who do you think will win?
Ichigo. The main reason he was so screwed over against Byakuya was prior to going Bankai himself he took a direct hit, and then on top of that damage he was dealing with the issues of his own bankai. Remove that damage and he should by all means last longer, and if he can be dodging Gin at ALL now, doing it then when he was actually formidable in speed is all too easy.
Worst case scenario Gin uses bankai and Ichigo tries the stupid thing and takes it without using his, which would pretty much kill him first shot, but I'd like to think back when he was actually good he'd not fall for such a scenario.
His speed was better (than recent Ichigo w/o Hollow), and his intellect seems to not have changed much in terms of deducing his opponents. Ichigo believe it or not has not gone through much Shinigami training since then and has but only diminished in Shinagmi ability. Having said that, a fully developed Shinigami Ichigo like I like to imagine would be able to deduce and counter Gin's amazing speed with his own. Then again it is hard to say since Gin has only been toying with his opponents since the start of this manga. I'd like to believe that since Ichigo has the help of his hollow as specified and since Gin does not have one (in this battle at least) Ichigo could pull out on top with bursts of the true power I believe could gravitate any Bleach-fan into becoming an Ichigo-fan.
This is all IMO (in my opinion). I see now there are a couple spots i could of added that so let me just wait until anyone who would point that out finishes my post and then reads this. I'm not trying to submit fact, only opinion based on the imagery and writing of another man.
Last edited by no_regretsYSL; July 07, 2010 at 08:44 PM.
What's Ichigo going to do to Gin? Getsuga Tenshou, and leave a small cut on his head again?
Even now, I don't think Ichigo could beat Kenpachi or Byakuya, let alone Gin, whom I would say is even stronger than those two. A 'serious Gin' should be able to defeat any gotei 13 captain, otherwise he's literally worthless to Aizen.
Well saying he couldn't beat those two is going a bit too far don't you think? Not only did he actually do it already but he would have more then enough than when he beat Kenpachi, and more then enough than when he beat Byakuya. Now you might say that Ken got surprised, well Ichigo didn't have a Bankai, now might you say Byakuya got Hollowed out, well Ichigo has the full power he had presumably after he overcame his Hollow influence and beat Byakuya, not right before his Hollow took over when he was tired and immobile. Thus those two should be done in by Ichigo from here on out even with Byakuya's special shunpo. Because as I recall Ichigo's special shunpo could do the same, as in Byakuya's "clones" couldn't attack only leave a Goku-esque after image like Ichigo.
i see no difference in this fight, i used to think ichigo lost his initial bankai speed but there are several examples of speed made by ichigo since SS that show no loss.
we all know how fast gins bankai is, well here we have ichigo a segnificant distance from gin, the bottom panal shows it well. http://beta.onemanga.com/Bleach/400/11/
and here we have the next page,http://beta.onemanga.com/Bleach/400/12/ ichigo closes the gap imeditly and gins bankai follows, at 500 times the speed of sound, and it seems to me that ichigo may only be a little slower than gins bankai retraction. atleast in was above average shunpo speed that he closed that gap with.
there are other examples of ichigos speed with grimmjow and ulquiorra, but it seems like it doesnt get the same kind of emphasis like like it did with byakuya since it would be old news at this point.
Can't really imagine ichigo's bankai speed now being the same as it was back then.... That'd mean grimmjow, ulquiorra and gin would be more then perfectly capable of more than easily speedblitzing byakuya without even having to release(at least at first, ichigo managed to easily speedblits byakuya with his bankai).... I really can't imagine such an scenario, it is far to weird. I could see any of those being even faster than byakuya but never to the absurd extent the whole the past events would suggest.
ichigos speed has not changed since the byakuya fight....kubo knew having ichigo the fastest guy in the world would be pointless so he creates enemys who same speed n ditchs the ideas of ichigo of speed blitzing..ichigo has not changed speed wise.....Serious Gin would still kill him it too damn fast .
He's slower in reaction time to Orihime at this point. If he didn't slow down then his bankai is easily the worst in the series.
If Ichigo hasn't slowed down since SS, then all I have to say is lol Keny and Byakushi. Also I would argue that GJ could break half the Gotei 13 while Ulquiorra blitzes grandpa. It would most certainly make Bleach more interesting I suppose.
Kubo doesnt make it clear. lol
If Ichigo has slowed down has he since SS arc acknowledged that or commented on his reduction of speed?
I mean wouldnt he constantly question as to why he was so much slower than the SS arc or tried to regain it?
Kubo has made some comments on his fluctuating power. Like:
-shirosaki pointing out that he was afraid of his own power in bankai when fighting vs Byakuya
-Ulquiorra commenting on fluctuating power level
-Bankai Tensa Zangetsu mentioning that he was afraid of a source of despair within him.
At this point, I have no idea how Ichigo is doing. For a while he was afraid of his inner hollow every time he went bankai, seemed to make progress, then got wrecked by Ulquiorra and relapsed into fear of despair.
^ Yeah, but its not like Ichigo saying, "Why am I slowing down?" Last time he said that was when he indeed vs Byakuya. Some translations differ too, some say he was shaking to his own baankai power, others say shaking against Byakuya's which makes sense since he was surrounded by his senki.
Speed is just a crapshoot in bleach. Remember how barragan speed blitzed Soi Fon and Starrk did the same to Ichi and ken? Then all of a sudden that speed vanishes and Barragan runs around after Omeda and Shunsui more than keeps up with Starrk.
Unless you decide that Ichigo has slowed down (no indication in the manga other than implication) then speedwise:
Hence Gin would speed rape byakuya... which even I, the byakuya hater do not buy. Heck, I can't even see Shunsui doing to soifon what barragan did to her.
Speed therefore is rubbish.
Going off skill and zanpakto techniques and kido alone, Gin takes this. If we assume speed is a no go, strength is basically the same (even if Ichi has the better sword, he doesn't exactly use it), getsuga did crap all to gin and Ichi has no kido. Gin was dominating the previous match, he still has kido to use, his sword actually does something.... I can't see him loosing.
I can't believe that people are denying Ichigo's fluctuations. Let me give you the rundown:
Kenpachi=Ichigo Shikai< Dordonii<Byakuya< Ichigo Bankai<Grimmjow Unreleased<Grimmjow Released<Masked Ichigo</=Nnoitra Released <Kenpachi<Ulquiorra Unreleased<Masked Ichigo< Ulquiorra R1<Yammy Released<Kenpachi>/=Byakuya.
That doesn't make any sense.
I say Ichigo, because Shirosaki was capable to taking over at the time.
Last edited by Nicholas.Sama; July 13, 2010 at 01:33 PM.