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Too much tl;dr... and deficient sp/punctuation/etc... D:
Aside from procrastinating, I'd like to bring a few of my comments to the thread.
1. I agree with candy, I do not think the Earl is Mana. I think that belief is an outgrowth of the totally and utterly deconstructed "Mana = 14th" theory. I think the 14th never told the Earl about Mana, and thus the Earl never bothered. Or maybe the Earl did know of Mana, and resurrecting him was probably the Earl's sadism at work - but he hadn't bothered to notice for whom he was resurrecting Mana for.
2. Allen going with the Noahs is not a plot twist. All of the odds are pulling Allen in that direction, so how would it be unexpected? I'm sure Hoshino can think of a much less obvious way of getting in some interesting screentime on the Noah family. What I think would be unexpected is if Allen somehow escaped the Noah. It would also be surprising if a major character died.
And I'll post more later when I get time. Darned paperwork...
Well at some moments the Earl wears the same typ of atributes as Mana wich makes for interesting debate as for why this is the case.
Im totaly not saying the Earl is Mana. Just that there is reasonable doubt.
The possibility of the earl and Mana being a split person is another option. But there is already Jasdevi...never use the same trick twice?
Another possibility is that Mana was 1 of the noah wich is a valid option, Wisely mentioned Tyki looked like...that person...Mana perhaps? (I like to mention Wisely never said who that person is so asuming he ment the 14th makes no sense since Wisely knows that Allen is the 14th since he read the mind of the earl and Tyki).
So it might be that the Joy noah was Mana. Clown/Joy noah would work ^^.
(Just random thoughts on noah/Mana/Earl/14th)
Its just realy complicated mainly because of the main issue here.
14th+Mana were brothers (fact)
Earl+14th were realy close (fact)
Earl calls his situation with 14th worse then Kanda+Almas (fact)
Earl wants to join the 14th (fact) < prolly the weirdest off all the facts.
So if you add this up its rather conclusive that the 14th and the earl are more then just 2 noah.
Also Mana was the 14ths real human brother (viz media translation)
We know that the noah awaken in random people so whats the chance of real human brothers both being noahs... on bilions of people...
So even tho the closeness of the earl with the 14th its highly unlikely he is Mana mainly cause the noah awaken on random (so far we know)
I like to present another option.
the Earl is the 14th and Manas father. As in real father. Their mother possibly some human thus making both 14th and Mana half-noah. This would explain the following in a instant.
-Why the earl wants to be with the 14th ( his only remaining son ofc)
-the 14th could indeed replace the earl as a new earl (heir to the throne typ)
-why mana is somewhat lookalike the earl...his father. Same for the 14th possibly.
-why Road is so close with Allen (Tyki said she only kissed the earl before. So possibly its something like a recognition of the earls son in a way)
-finaly the full theory of 13 noahs and then you got a 14th noah...where did he come from? Well if a noah has kids might be they are aditional noah.
Just Theory ^^
Last edited by ca12nag3; July 12, 2010 at 08:21 AM.
I don't think the Earl had any connection or has, any to Mana. We've all seen his human form, and it looks nothing like Mana. The Earl didn't even know about Mana until Allen asked him to bring him back, and even still he doesn't seem to be the least interested in Mana. No, I just think the Earl had a very close bond with the 14th, like brothers
or even closer hehehand when the 14th decided for whatever reason, to try and become the next Earl and kill the present one, the Earl felt deeply betrayed. I am liking this theory that the Earl was perhaps a nicer person and more gentle before the 14th betrayed him.
Also, chapter 196 http://mangastream.com/read/d_gray_man/68914521/25 after allen and fou, hoshino shows the Earl - could it be possible that Allen is suttely refering to the Earl? heck, to me it kinda looks like the Earl realizes that allen is also referring to him.... =/
I just had a thought that it might be possible that Tyki's 'pleasure' isn't personally pleasure, but wanting to make others happy: ie - give silver buttons to tease and try to recruit Allen/14th cuz that would make Earl happy...o.o'
Also, was it ever even specified who the 14th looks like?? It's been said that he looks like Tyki, Tyki has long hair therefore 14th = long haired boy, but all flashbacks have him with short hair - shorted hair than even Tyki's in the begginig of series (more like allen's/wisely's).... so yeah. Also, chapter 187 Road says that she didn't remember anyone's face other than 'his', following Wisely's conversation about 14's and Joyd's similarities. Provided the topic was 14th, i think they both refered to him.....unless we just got another
I don't see much of a resemblance between the Earl and Mana though. The major flaw in this theory is that the Earl didn't even know Mana until Allen wanted him to come back. I don't think this is a Jekyll/Hyde theory either- Mana was sweet, slightly crazy (but that's only because he lost the 14th) and fathered Allen. The Earl would have instantly recognized Allen's anti akuma weapon and killed him. However, I am intrigued by one small detail- Allen was born with an anti-akuma weapon. Is that natural? So far, the only people's history with the Innocence that we know is that either they were forced to sync, or they did through a certain event. I don't recall anyone being born with an Innocence though....and we don't even know Allen's biological parents (Interestingly enough, Hoshino-sama has never really talked about this). Is this all somehow connected to the Heart?
I WAS ALSO LOOKING AT THAT PICTURE! I didn't understand why they showed the Earl's face after that..but I immediately assumed that Allen was indirectly talking about the Akuma or the 14th too....at least, that's what I guess.
Hmm well the Earl+Mana+14th discussion seems to have fired up due to the new things said+done in the new chapter^^.
So i was thinking about all options for who is who and what relation they have to one another.
-Mana is the earl, and ofc the 14ths brother (the most simple theory but with some plot issues, mainly the earl revived Mana as Akuma so both at the same place, yet it could be explained as a dream? Im only theorizing )
-Mana and the earl are a split person the good and the evil split, 14th tries to kill the evil but fails, escapes with the good wich is Mana. A sound theory that shouldnt be disgarded yet.
-Mana and the earl are not related at all. 14th Might have been influenced by his strong bond to his human brother Mana. Thus 14th tried to take out the earl cause hes evil failed and had to run. (The reason why Mana didnt get killed might be that hes merely a human and no real threat).
-Last option out of the hat is that the earl we see isnt real. In this theory the real Earl is and always was the 14th. the earl is actualy a projection created by Road, after all she is the noah of dream has the ability to controle the ark (the earl said in Edo that he,Road and the 14th could controle it).
Also the doors the earl used are Road doors.He used one when leaving the ark. Yet weve seen Relo,a lvl3 Akuma Lulubell and Allen use portals in and out of the ark that look like light or dark portals but never a (Road door).
Shes the only one that didnt get killed by the 14th. She herself said shes the only one who hasnt reincarnated for 35 years. So that makes her 35+ years old. So she didnt get killed.
So did the earl get killed? <real earl that is.
So if the 14th is the earl and this earl is a projection of Road that would mean she rebelled against him and changing the story. Allen doesnt remember anything anyways.
According to the Spanish version of this chapter:
What Wisely says in this translation is true: The Earl didnt die in the last 7000 years.
So Road, Wisely and The Earl are the only ones than remember the 14th.
So Mana CAN NOT be the Earl.
Also, in the next page:
They say Tikk looks like that guy, being that guy the 14th himself.
Is yet an open question if Tikk has something to do with Mana.
In the Spanish translation of this page: http://manga.animea.net/d-gray-man-c...6-page-11.html it is said:
1. The 14th and Mana share the same blood
2. They both were always together.
If he was a Noah, how did survived the Earl?
(Though I don't necessarily think that means Road isn't dead. It's just a theory I had once, but the fact that she wasn't reincarnated doesn't mean she didn't die... I don't really think my theory's right, but...)
Mana didn't have to be a Noah to look like Tyki, I guess, and... I don't understand your last line? The contradiction would be that the 14th supposedly killed all of the other Noah, except Road, if Mana were also a Noah, and we know Mana definitely didn't die before the 14th (again, unless you believe in certain theories, but they would require the Mana we know to not be the real Mana, and...). But the only characters who remember what happened back then haven't really talked about it.Quote:
I mean Mana was with the 14th till the end.
If Mana was a Noah & he was in the 14th side. So: why didnt the Earl kill him?
Ofc, that accident we saw in the anime could be thing of the Earl, but they never mentioned it after that and the Earl look like forgot about Mana when he was made into a Akuma.
My position is:
- Mana cant be and he's not the Earl.
- Since Tikk looks like the 14th, there's an small posibility for Mana being the last host of Tikk's Noah.
- But i think HE'S NOT, because he's been mentioned as a blood brother not as a noah himself and because he lived as a normal human till his dead.
Ofc course this is just my opinion
The most i can accept with the info we have now is Mana being the previous Tikk's noah, but for some reason he was able to stop being a Noah and again be a normal human, how?
The Earl said that the Akuma are a part of his soul, right? What if they adapted the "take control of a corpse" thing from him? He could be wearing Mana's body, which is why they look the exact same.
The reason? The Earl wants to be close to the 14th, right? He was probably jealous of Mana, who was the 14th's actual brother. So him "becoming" Mana might just be another part of his obsession.
It's also probable that the Earl had something to do with Mana's death. I don't buy into the whole carriage accident crap that the Anime spewed.
when the earl used road's door to escape the ark it is possible that he had planned for road to open a door at a given time. either that or there is another possibility that the earl possesses all the powers of the 13noah. and how would allen, lulubell, or relo use roads powers if they do not have those abilities?allen has the ability to control the "light" arc while relo and lulubell have access to the power of the "dark" arc.
even though road said she was the only one to have not been reincarnated in the last 35 years does not mean that the earl died. she simply could have been saying she was the only noah out of the 13 noah who wasn't killed. i like to think that the earl is not considered in the counting of the 13 noah.
'sigh' im just procrastinating. better go do my assignments. please comment on my theory!
If you look at earlier mentions a few pages before that you see the earl+12 noah (symbolicaly) So that makes 13. Im not gonna argue over the idea of the earl being 1 of the 13 or not.
What it would mean in this theory that Road is projecting the earl is that she atm is the earl. So what the 14th would have to do is kill Road. And what Road is projecting is actualy the 14th when he was the earl before.
But its all just theory and could easily be defused in a chapter or 2 from now.
Im just hoping we get to see more soon.