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^If the VCs are fodder because they are young then they are still fodder though. I am not saying they well remain like that forever, I am just saying their current strength is negligible in comparison to the captains at the moment. Renji, hisagi and kira have a more than decent chance of becoming considerably stronger due to them being young. Renji has a special chance of actually reaching captain level considering he has a bankai to master and push him. Just mastering his bankai is something that will require renji to substantially increase his reiatsu.
That said, not all VCs are young. Matsumoto has been shown to have been around for over 100 years and went to the academy with gin. I don't think she is going to get much stronger than what she is now. Ikkaku does not strike me as someone who has a proper mastery of bankai. It takes a while for it to reach full power, it is brittle (meaning it won't last more than a couple of hits into a battle) and it did not kill that fraccion moments into the battle. Even if grimmjow's fraccion was strong even by numeros standards a captain level shinigami should pretty much one shot it (lets take a look at half dead hitsu for instance). Yama's VC has been around for quite q while so I doubt he is getting any stronger. Izane is a rather ambiguous case. Omaeda was born in SS, even being a lazy worthless slob he has at the skill to take on a fraccion. If he actually weren't a lazy dumbass slob he might have a chance of doing something with himself. Mashiro, hiyori and liza seem to barely reach the captain level with their masks on. It is very possible they are quite above the VC level without their masks though.
That said, I think kubo mentioned iba's mom and omaeda's dad simply retired from the squads. Iba's mom was old to begin with (would that make iba someone born in SS though, he would be a noble in that scenario right?) so perhaps she just choose to spend her last couple hundreds years in peace. Omaeda's dad would seem to be dealing with whatever nobles deal with. Perhaps a business or something? after all, omaeda has been stated to be from a extremely wealthy family. Unohana's VC is a rare case. All we know is that he had a rather unpleasant personality and had deep respect for unohana. He is a member of the fourth division which would make it rather strange he was killed while in duty. Perhaps he also retired? We know byakuya's dad was killed at some point (wonder if byakuya was already stronger than him when that happened). If I recall, byakuya's former VC retired and opened a glass store or something. I would think VCs who don't get murdered in the line of duty retire once another safer and more lucrative opportunity. Take renji and rukia, they seemed to originally want to be shinigami in order to get better lives. If that is the case for others then better financial opportunities would be a good reason to retire. VCs are selected by their captains. In that sense, I don't think they are obligated to keep the VCs from the previous captains.
One question, does the databook make any mention of the part where starrk kidnaps orihime? Or does the databook simply does not go that far? I always got the impression that there was more than just speed involved in that part considering starrk just disappeared without leaving a single trace.
Last edited by kkck; October 24, 2010 at 10:40 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
I'm pretty late to this discussion, but I just wanted to note for all of the people saying "former Kenpachi must've been weak, he got killed by current Kenpachi"...keep in mind that Zaraki didn't have the eyepatch yet, so he lost to eyepatch-less Zaraki...not exactly the weakest guy ever...
Interesting points on the VCs, but I can't imagine many shinigami that want to just keep fighting and are also able to keep the level of strength necessary to be a VC
Last edited by El Samurai Guapo; November 09, 2010 at 11:47 PM.
They did have over 100 years to learn Bankai, so I can agree that it would be pretty sad if they still didn't have it =/
Although, if obtaining Bankai is something sorta...inherent to a person's limits as a Shinigami, then it would make sense for them to not have it, even with 100 years of training...that would suck for them though...
All in all, I'd like to see more Bankais and even Shikai abilities...initially what interested me in Bleach (and what hooked me on Psyren) was the different abilities, as opposed to a DBZ-style manga/anime.
Byakuya mentioned how rare bankai actually is to obtain. Even from his noble family with all their training and noble blood bankai is only ever achieved every few generations.
Not to mention him saying that those who have achieved bankai in the past have always shaped the history of SS in some signficant way...or something like that, dont have time to check.
Bankai is meant to be a peak for shingami that only very few have the potential to reach and even fewer achieve.
Till, Kubo decides to retcon that statement that is.....
Last edited by Waking_Dreamer; November 11, 2010 at 01:51 AM.
Yeah, except that Byakuya is full of crap with all his egotistical nobility nonsense - which is why he got two nice surprises from Ichigo and Renji. He annoys me whenever he talks about nobility, like if they were a superior race or something. Clearly nobles are just wealthy people that have pull in Seireitei. I'd pick someone who makes it from having a background like Renji or Kenpachi as having more potential than a spoon-fed noble any day. Byakuya is strong because he's Byakuya, not because he's a Kuchiki.
Sure, bankai is exceedingly rare overall, but how rare is it among already shikai capable VCs (or seated officers) that are driven to keep improving? I think learning the name of their zanpakutou is the hurdle 99% of Shinigami never make it past. From that point, provided they are motivated get stronger, there's no reason why at least most of these already exceptional shinigami shouldn't be able to materialize their zanpakutou like Renji.
In regards to Lisa and Hiyori, both definitely had a reason to get stronger over the 100 years. Both are far above VC level as base shinigami if too. No current VC would be able to casually approach the rreleased third espada while sealed and not get murdered in a millisecond. No VC would have lasted anywhere near 10 mins in a barrier the size of a room with Ichigo's hollow either. The very same form that messed up the pompous aristocrat pretty badly.
I'm calling it that at the very least Lisa has a bankai.
Last edited by El Samurai Guapo; November 11, 2010 at 03:54 AM.
While this discussion on who may or may not have bankai is rather interesting, you guys sort of have wandered away from the topic of this thread (the contents of the latest databook). If you could stop discussing who has bankai here, that would be great. You could use the hangout thread for that.
Available to buy in english, March 2012 release date. http://books.simonandschuster.com/Bl.../9781421542300
Nice lol. To bad we have to wait a whole year for that though. It just might be sooner than what someone would actually translate it.
3rd databook should be in the states by 2016 i imagine, with the releases of the mangas being so far behind and all.
why hasn't Bleach gotten the same treatment as Naruto and One Piece yet?.
Where can I read the data book online for free?