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Thread: Lost in translation: Number 508

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    Translator 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member boyakist4649's Avatar
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    Lost in translation: Number 508

    Again - not a bad week. Just a couple of type-set differences. Nothing that changes the meaning of the overall chapter. Original Mangastream text in italics, my flavours in bold.

    p3
    Ageha: "Take him alive! We'll never get another chance like this! We can get a lot more info out of him!"
    Ageha: "Capture him alive! We'll never get another chance like this! I'll extract more information out of him!"
    There is no statement saying that Kisame had more information to share, but rather Ageha stating that he could get more information OUT of Kisame. Subtle, but relevant in terms of pointing out Kisame's unwillingness to cooperate.

    p4
    Gai: The water wall's blocking me!
    Gai: I can't reach because of this water wall
    The water wall is just too thick for Gai to reach - not necessarily blocking him.

    p5
    Naruto: "That's the water prison technique!"
    Naruto: "I think that's called the water prison technique!"
    Sound a lot more like Naruto - not necessarily the most knowledgeble in terms of jutsus. He must remember it (vaguely) from the Zabuza battle.

    p6
    missing text in top right frame.
    Kisame: Itachi-san... it's just like you said...
    Kisame: "Itachi-san... it's just like you said..."
    Kisame: " Starting today, I will be the one working with you..."
    Kisame: "I've been selected to be your partner. I am Hoshigaki Kisame."
    Kisame: "I am Hoshigaki Kisame, a former Seven Shinobi Swordsman from the Kiri Gakure (hidden mist). (I hope to get to know you.)"
    What Kisame says, 以後、お見知りおきを, is more of a formality - a proper way to end an introduction of yourself.

    Kisame: "Formerly of the hidden mist village and it's seven shinobi swordsmen."
    "Pleased to make your acquaintance. And you are Uchiha Itachi, formerly of the hidden leaf village."
    Kisame: "and... you are Uchiha Itachi, formerly of Konoha Gakure (hidden leaf village)."
    "I have heard about you... that you had killed off all of your fellow Uchiha..."

    Kisame: "I've heard the rumors of how you killed every last of your clansmen."
    "I know all about you... That's why I was chosen to be your partner."
    Kisame: "I understand a lot about you..."
    "That is why I decided to be your partner withing Akatsuki..."
    The text clearly implicates that Kisame had a say in who his partner was to be. However, keep note that it is an implication, and not clearly stated as, "I chose you".

    p8
    Kisame: "Sharks start out as eggs, but incubate and hatch in the womb."
    "Sometimes the number of pups is less than the number of eggs that were fertilized. Do you know why?"
    Kisame: "Sharks are ovoviviparous, where the egg is developed in the womb, and are eventually given birth..."
    "However certain sharks have a lesser number of birthed pups than the number of developed eggs. Would you know why?"
    Yes, Kisame said ovoviviparous. And this is apparently not true for all shark species.

    p13
    Bee: "This poor guy's cryin' like a baby."
    "He's dead this time and I don't mean maybe."
    Bee: "This guys knows and he's - crying (Naite iru)"
    "This time it looks like it's for real - he's gone (Naki mono)"
    Naki mono means a person who has passed away. I guess this is final confirmation of Kisame's death - a mourning Samehada

    Gai: "He was a worthy opponent!"
    "A man who lived and died like a real shinobi!"
    Gai: "Although an enemy, he was worth praising!"
    "The (The value of a) shinobi's life, is determined by how they die!"
    Text doesn't say that Kisame was a worthy adversary/opponent, but rather an 'individual worth a praise'

    p15
    "All this water-pressure, it's the water prison!"
    "This heavy water - it's the water prison!"
    The "heavy" water was specifically pointed out in the Kakashi-Zabuza battle towards the beginning of the series.

    p16
    "Shit, it's headed for the ocean!"
    "Shoot - it's headed towards the ocean!"
    Kids manga... target audience are kids...

    Bee: "Mothafucka"
    Bee: "Bakayarou! Konoyarou!"
    Bee used to say this a lot. Bakayarou translates to 'stupid/foolish guy' while konoyarou loosely translates to 'damn it, dude'

    p17
    Madara: "I see you have no intention of telling me where you hid the rinnegan... Nagato."
    Madara: "The Rinnegan... I see you have no intention of telling me where you hid Nagato."
    Last edited by boyakist4649; September 06, 2010 at 11:46 AM. Reason: added further explanations...
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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Alterno's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 508

    I think you mixed a few translations, but once I noticed, it was easy to understand, thank you for another outstanding collaboration. I can't really put in words how much we appreciate doing this for the sake of a better understanding of the content, so until I find the appropriate words, we'll keep thanking you.

    Thank you.
    Last edited by Alterno; September 06, 2010 at 11:54 AM.

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    Translator 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member boyakist4649's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 508

    Quote Originally Posted by Alterno View Post
    I think you mixed a few translations, but once I noticed, it was easy to understand, thank you for another outstanding collaboration. I can't really put in words how much we appreciate doing this for the sake of a better understanding of the content, so until I find the appropriate words, we'll keep thanking you.

    Thank you.
    yes... I think the translations became 'shifted' due to the frame where the text was omitted. It was harder to understand, but it doesn't change the overall message whatsoever.
    I do not know why this 'shift' happened, as it didn't seem like the English text had any problems fitting.

    As always, thanks for your kind words and support!
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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Newkerzy's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 508

    Well, they're the fastest scanlation team out there so I think they sort of rushed it. But they made sure the translation was HQ enough to get the message across. That's their style.

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    Translator 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member boyakist4649's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 508

    Quote Originally Posted by Newkerzy View Post
    Well, they're the fastest scanlation team out there so I think they sort of rushed it. But they made sure the translation was HQ enough to get the message across. That's their style.
    ^^ b
    I think it is great what they do - as many English fans read the Naruto chapters faster than the Japanese fans thanks to their efforts. They actually do a great job in translating the overall message and feel - all I am hoping to do is to offer additional explaination.
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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Shinomori Aoshi's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 508

    I really appreciate what you are doing every week, there's always something to be clarified. Though I think you're getting a little too literal with some lines... I mean I don't think there's any difference in English when you say either of the translations (yours or Mangashare's) for pages 3, 4, 8 (are you trying to say that he used a difficult/unusual word? There's no difference in meaning), 15, 16. On the other hand, page 17 surely needed clarification, as many people thought Konan was Nagato (!!), and page 6 had that implication that hadn't been translated. Well, thanks again anyway!

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    Fallen 神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike Nuno's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 508

    Mangastream does indeed do a rather good job, I especially find them doing Killer Bee's lines rather well (perhaps not in terms of accuracy, but they give out the overall message well and make his lines into nice rhymes at the same time).

    But regardless of Mangastream's great work it's awesome to have a real pro translating the slight gaps every week.

    This week I felt like the lines spoken between Kisame and Itachi were particularly messy. Something just didn't feel right when reading it, the conversation has a more "smooth" feel to it now.

    As always keep up the good work!

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    Translator 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member boyakist4649's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 508

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinomori Aoshi View Post
    I really appreciate what you are doing every week, there's always something to be clarified. Though I think you're getting a little too literal with some lines... I mean I don't think there's any difference in English when you say either of the translations (yours or Mangashare's) for pages 3, 4, 8 (are you trying to say that he used a difficult/unusual word? There's no difference in meaning), 15, 16. On the other hand, page 17 surely needed clarification, as many people thought Konan was Nagato (!!), and page 6 had that implication that hadn't been translated. Well, thanks again anyway!
    Thanks! I think in the future I will be more mindful of adding an explanation of the differences in text. ^_^


    Quote Originally Posted by 3c View Post
    Mangastream does indeed do a rather good job, I especially find them doing Killer Bee's lines rather well (perhaps not in terms of accuracy, but they give out the overall message well and make his lines into nice rhymes at the same time).

    But regardless of Mangastream's great work it's awesome to have a real pro translating the slight gaps every week.

    This week I felt like the lines spoken between Kisame and Itachi were particularly messy. Something just didn't feel right when reading it, the conversation has a more "smooth" feel to it now.

    As always keep up the good work!
    Yes, I am too quite impressed with the Bee translations!

    I agree, the Kisame-Itachi conversation is strange. Especially when Itachi says "we're human, not sharks" seemed completely out of place and disrupting the flow of a normal conversation. In any case, it reads weird in Japanese as well.
    Last edited by boyakist4649; September 06, 2010 at 11:50 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Thabor's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 508

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinomori Aoshi View Post
    I really appreciate what you are doing every week, there's always something to be clarified. Though I think you're getting a little too literal with some lines... I mean I don't think there's any difference in English when you say either of the translations (yours or Mangashare's) for pages 3, 4, 8 (are you trying to say that he used a difficult/unusual word?
    There are differences in English between those translations. They may not be large differences, but some people really get hung up over word choice. For example on page 4, blocking usually has a connotation of active interference. Someone might imagine a special barrier or membrane surrounding the water prison to keep both the person and the water in. Where if it is just too far to reach, that might or might not be the case. Later the heaviness of the water is mentioned. You could imagine that there is no barrier around it, but the water is viscous and difficult to move through.
    Hey Kishi, even Madara knows...

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    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Roflkopt3r's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 508

    Thanks alot, it's great how you manage to point out those little differences each week. Especially regarding the relationship of people I really enjoy your explanations

    This week maybe especially for this one:
    Quote Quote:
    Kisame: "I understand a lot about you..."
    "That is why I decided to be your partner withing Akatsuki..."
    I really like that since that adds a little to the view on Kisame, that he chose someone who seems to be equal to him as his partner. Seemingly even he might want to be around someone who possibly shares some experiences or emotions with him rather than different people who might not understand him as well.
    Possibly he even expects that there was a more serious reason to the Uchiha massacre then... maybe he even knows...
    Ok, that's a very far-fetched idea but it's only possible because of the little difference of "I was chosen" and "I chose" in your translation <3
    Last edited by Roflkopt3r; September 06, 2010 at 12:43 PM.

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    Translator 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member boyakist4649's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 508

    Quote Originally Posted by Roflkopt3r View Post
    Thanks alot, it's great how you manage to point out those little differences each week. Especially regarding the relationship of people I really enjoy your explanations

    This week maybe especially for this one:

    I really like that since that adds a little to the view on Kisame, that he chose someone who seems to be equal to him as his partner. Seemingly even he might want to be around someone who possibly shares some experiences or emotions with him rather than different people who might not understand him as well.
    Possibly he even expects that there was a more serious reason to the Uchiha massacre then... maybe he even knows...
    Ok, that's a very far-fetched idea but it's only possible because of the little difference of "I was chosen" and "I chose" in your translation <3
    I re-read it again, and it does indeed say that of the Akatsuki members, Kisame decided on partnering with Itachi.

    ...so I don't think that your idea is too far-fetched.
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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Shinomori Aoshi's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 508

    Quote Originally Posted by Thabor View Post
    There are differences in English between those translations. They may not be large differences, but some people really get hung up over word choice. For example on page 4, blocking usually has a connotation of active interference. Someone might imagine a special barrier or membrane surrounding the water prison to keep both the person and the water in. Where if it is just too far to reach, that might or might not be the case. Later the heaviness of the water is mentioned. You could imagine that there is no barrier around it, but the water is viscous and difficult to move through.
    Agreed. But I believe that Mangastream are always trying to translate the overall meaning, so getting hung up over word choice is inappropriate, to say the least. For instance, I understood the correct interpretation on page 4 right away.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Alterno's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 508

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinomori Aoshi View Post
    Agreed. But I believe that Mangastream are always trying to translate the overall meaning, so getting hung up over word choice is inappropriate, to say the least. For instance, I understood the correct interpretation on page 4 right away.
    Excuse me, but I disagree. Binktopia's adaptation so far has screwed up the whole meaning of a page and something such page becomes something so drastically important that makes the chapter something very different from the original content. I'm thankful to Binktopia and Mangastream for the early and high quality scan effort that they do each weak... but at the same time I don't see why to treat them different from other scanlators group when they screw up.

    The are different is that sometimes they don't really translate, they pretty much adapt it to English language, and when you adapt something you actually change things to better suit their public, but thats very dangerous path to follow, because you can cross the line where it becomes something totally different from what intended in the original.

    I miss old school scanlation which add notes explaining a word or a phrase, but that changes so much, in today scan you only find the jutsu's name in japanese and the meaning in a small note with the english name. At the end of the week you end reading like 3 or 4 different scan to understand everything properly or read comments from translators like Boyakist. :P


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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Thabor's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 508

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinomori Aoshi View Post
    Agreed. But I believe that Mangastream are always trying to translate the overall meaning, so getting hung up over word choice is inappropriate, to say the least.
    I agree with you completely, and I've said the same thing in other threads a couple times already just in the past week or so.. But it still happens, and will likely continue to happen in the future.

    Translations are frequently quoted as if the writing came directly from Kishi himself. People are even beginning to quote Boyakist's translations as the "correct" one because they feel they are more accurate.. I don't think the majority of people on this site really understand that languages don't really have exact one to one mappings to each other. I try to read at least two if not three different ones.

    Everyone makes mistakes sometimes, Mangastream has had several instances of what I felt were very poor translations, and Binktopia is often criticized.. If Boyakist keeps at this long enough someone is bound to take issue with some of hers as well. I'm happy to have another reliable source, but even now I try to check the raw Japanese for anything that gets talked about much. That can be difficult though when it comes to recent chapters..
    Hey Kishi, even Madara knows...

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    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Roflkopt3r's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 508

    Quote Originally Posted by Alterno View Post
    Excuse me, but I disagree. Binktopia's adaptation so far has screwed up the whole meaning of a page and something such page becomes something so drastically important that makes the chapter something very different from the original content. I'm thankful to Binktopia and Mangastream for the early and high quality scan effort that they do each weak... but at the same time I don't see why to treat them different from other scanlators group when they screw up.

    The are different is that sometimes they don't really translate, they pretty much adapt it to English language, and when you adapt something you actually change things to better suit their public, but thats very dangerous path to follow, because you can cross the line where it becomes something totally different from what intended in the original.

    I miss old school scanlation which add notes explaining a word or a phrase, but that changes so much, in today scan you only find the jutsu's name in japanese and the meaning in a small note with the english name. At the end of the week you end reading like 3 or 4 different scan to understand everything properly or read comments from translators like Boyakist. :P

    Yeah I agree with you, there certainly is a basic level of interpretation involved in every one of Binktopia's translation. However, that's a bit like having a high quality version in a different way. I mean take a car, all the electronics and mechanics are hidden because it looks better, and so it's the same for translations... it tries to give us a complete, good looking, familiar sounding and suitable translation without bothering the reader with details of translation.
    Or maybe a better comparison is a weekly magazine and Wikileaks: Wikileaks provides us with the very original files, yet it's alot of work to understand everything in it. Journalists of a weekly magazine put it all together and give us the short version of it. Of course there is alot of interpretation in that, but it's easier to read.

    I think the compromise of seperating the raw meanings and the easy-to-read version between boyakist's weekly article and binktopia's translations is very good. The fact that Boyakist is putting all of it in the form of an article allows much more comments on it than if it was directly on a scanlation while Binktopia is an incredibly fast worker.

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