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Thread: Chapter 507: Kisame's Past

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    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Roflkopt3r's Avatar
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    Chapter 507: Kisame's Past

    Kisame's past revealed!

    Oh my god, I can't put in words how cool it is. Finally some info about Kisame!
    But let's start at the beginning.

    Gai versus Kisame - Burying ideas of early Naruto forever

    Actually the rather boring part here to be honest. It mainly confirmed us two things: They're both a hell of a shinobi and Gai is the worst matchup Kisame could've met.
    After Kisame finally showed us what he can do with that tremendous chakra pool, he now also shows how he can use it not only for a quantity of suiton but also to use very specialized jutsu. A gigantic supersized shark that eats chakra, including ninjutsu - a great technique for both offense and defense.
    Sad for him, Gai doesn't like ninjutsu. He likes taijutsu, and his huge "Afternoon Tiger" is beeing revealed as a pure taijutsu attack only usuable after opening seven gates. The "chakra" Kisame thought to see was just some kind of supernatural sweat as an side effect of the celestial gates.
    Long story short, Gai oneshots Kisame, hits him another time to make sure of his victory.

    Actually I heavily disapprove with this ending, or rather a huge part of the fight even. Maybe because a part of me is a Kisame fan, but mainly because it makes me remember all those "Naruto is turning into dragon-ball style power scales" comments and these pictures make them feel so true.
    What I liked about early Naruto episodes, and I guess some people feel the same, was that even the weakest weapons could be deadly when used by a powerful shinobi. There was no need for super nuclear bomb like skills, ninja fought with Kunai, Shuriken, even simple needles (Haku) and the users skill determined the outcome.
    Jutsu like Chidori and Rasengan were called impressive and rare super destructive techniques which take alot of skill to master and still, people using them were easily dominated by more experienced shinobi who used their bare hands. Kabuto dodging Naruto's first rasengan with ease. Itachi deflecting Sasuke's Chidori with a single slight move. Now I don't mean to bother you with the whole story of armament upgrades over the whole Naruto history. But seeing every second supporting character using jutsu which are powerful enough to destroy a mountain is kinda disenchanting.

    Furthermore Gai doesn't even show side effects afterwards. Last time when he opened some gates to defeat Kisame's clone he was totally exhausted afterwards and had to delay his team in their attempt of rescuing Gaara. This time they just talk about how bad seven-gate-sweat smells. I expected so see Gai near death from exhaustion this time, after all it's been seven out of eight gates with the last gate beeing certain death...

    Interogation!
    What a sorry sight. The tall and mighty Kisame beeing locked in a pillory with his conquerors standing around him, cracking jokes.
    Finally we see a use for that random Konoha shinobi who is now diving into Kisame's mind.
    And here starts the real impressive story part...


    He is human after all!
    Kisames past. I still can't believe that we finally recieve information on him. Him, the very mysterious guy who is always smiling, always seems to feel superior, has incredible powers and no background.

    Flashback. Kisame sits in a forest. He is addressed as Hoshigaki-San and recieves an invitation to eat with the other shinobi of Kiri around by a young kunoichi, but he refuses in a rare way...

    The other shinobi don't seem to care for him, they see him as a brainless guard for them, the Kirigakure Intel Squad, as the important people. They tell the kunoichi to give up on talking to him.
    Suddenly a Kunai with explosive tag lands and explodes.

    Second Flashback. Kisame in front of a weird fat guy. His superior in Kirigakure.
    "Protect your comrades", he says "[...] but above all [...] no matter what goes down, you must defend the codes to the death." Kisame with a rare facial expression for him... surprise? Even doubts and fear? Regrets?

    Back in the forest. Kisame faces Ibiki, chief interrogator of Konoha, who tells the Kiri ninja to surrender to Konoha's outnumbering force.

    In his memory where he stands in front of his superior he shows a more usual sight now than before. A grin. "I will never hand anyone from the squad alive." He knows that his job is to kill all of his comrades now.

    Next thing we sees fully explains everything we so far knew about him:
    The Monster of Kirigakure.

    The kunoichi who tried to associate with him lies directly before his feet now as he impales her with his sword.
    One of the strongest pictures there have been so far in my opinion...
    Even his enemies are shocked. Sadly we don't see the expressions on their faces, but we can easily guess what they must look like.

    Next part: Kisame killed his superior and has taken Samehada. A shadow appears from behind a wall: Jondaime Mizukage, Yagura.
    He congratulates Kisame and tells him that his future will be as a direct subordinate to the Mizukage. He says that the plump superior shouldn't have lowered his guard.
    Kisame smiles. He looks exactly like in Akatsuki now. "Until you decided to have me killed too, right Mizukage?".
    Mizukage tells him that he is trustworthy now, as a traitor to his comrades for the sake of his village and "that's why you know nothing of this world but lies."
    Kisame doesn't lose his smile, what's a remarkable feature given the words he speaks:

    Kisame is a man who knows that there is nothing he posesses. No comrades, no trust, no position and no identy.

    And this is the moment that changes everything.

    A person in the shadows behind Yagura reveals his presence to Kisame and says:
    Quote Quote:
    "I will release you from the pain of falsehoods... And make a place where you belong."
    Kisame notices one thing: That person trusts him.

    Madara fully reveals himself to Kisame now by showing his Sharingan and telling his name. Yet Kisame wants one more thing of Madara before he could trust him: Showing himself. And Madara replies:
    Quote Quote:
    "As you wish. You are free to trust or doubt me as you see fit."
    That's the moment the Konoha ninja is forced out of Kisame's mind and faces Kisame in the real world:

    He forces himself awake by biting his tongue, and possibly agreeing to die this way!

    Before I get overexited, back into the forest.
    Did anyone notice "Wow, that Kisame is acting STRANGE!" ?
    Keeping his eyes focussed on the ground. Doesn't face the woman talking to her and refuses her offer in such a weird way...
    "Please don't try to be friendly with me..."
    What a moment! That man is totally human! He knows he might have to kill all of the people around them. The way he denies her offer is so self-punishing. It's just like he would say "I don't deserve to be treated friendly by you, I might kill you later." A full statement of guilt.
    That man is totally different to the ruthless killer Kisame we know from Akatsuki.
    If we look at the monstrous picture of him on top of the Intel Squads' corpses only a few minutes or seconds later, we can be very certain that this is a moment shaping him forever.
    As further prove, we see Kisame's flashback and how he reacts the moment he understands that his mission might include killing all of his teammates. That's not his wicked shark-grin that says "I don't care for lives". He is well aware of the situation and we see his remotions reflected in his face.


    Ok, done with this part.
    If anyone thought "oh, that guy shows some determination" after Kisame bit his tongue...




    Quote Quote:
    The last roar of a man who finally found a place where he belonged!
    That's the real thing! The usually carelessly smiling Kisame showing determination like nobody ever did before!
    And all of this to protect a memory.
    Madara's genius revealed as he gains so much trust with a few words that Kisame wants to protect this memory on expense of his own life. He is the one who gave Kisame a meaning in life as he overcomes distrust and lies.
    The moment sealing this when the memory flashback continues after Kisame awakes. That's not forced information anymore, it's his own memory.
    And there, between Kisame biting his tongue and going on a rampage, we see that Madara told him all of his plans. This must be incredibly important to him, and as we see this amount of determination to rather die than leaking the information, it must be an important moment. He'ld do everything to assist Madara, the only person he has a trustful relationship with, in accomplishing his dreams.
    Kisame beeing a boy like Haku who gives everything for a meaning in life!

    What a great chapter. For me these moments might be the first that can compete with the very first storyline of Naruto, the death of Haku and Zabuza, in regards of emotional storytelling!
    Tragic Kisame, shaped by his life and surroundings. A man-made monster sacrificing everything to another person's dream to find a true meaning in a life dominated by lies and loneliness. And who found the place where he belongs.


    I hope anyone here can understand why I'm so freaking out about this chapter
    Last edited by Roflkopt3r; August 26, 2010 at 12:03 PM.

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    Hound of Shadow 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member benelori's Avatar
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    Re: Chapter 507: Kisame's Past

    Thanks for the review man...it's great to have another reviewer, so I just hope U'll continue this...I think it was a very good review for a first one, it is the first right?...you managed to capture to great feeling that the chapter provided...

    So anyway...the chapter...I found it ironic that Kisame is giving his life for Tobi...it has been explained a few times that it doesn't matter who is the one that UR fighting for, it that person provides a reason to exist...it was the same with Haku and Zabuza, and with Kimimaro and Orochimaru...but this time Tobi's goals kinda contradict what Kisame loathed in this life:lies...

    Do you think that Madara told Kisame the same plan that he told the kages?

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    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Roflkopt3r's Avatar
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    Re: Chapter 507: Kisame's Past

    Quote Originally Posted by benelori View Post
    Thanks for the review man...it's great to have another reviewer, so I just hope U'll continue this...I think it was a very good review for a first one, it is the first right?...you managed to capture to great feeling that the chapter provided...

    So anyway...the chapter...I found it ironic that Kisame is giving his life for Tobi...it has been explained a few times that it doesn't matter who is the one that UR fighting for, it that person provides a reason to exist...it was the same with Haku and Zabuza, and with Kimimaro and Orochimaru...but this time Tobi's goals kinda contradict what Kisame loathed in this life:lies...

    Do you think that Madara told Kisame the same plan that he told the kages?
    Yes, he certainly did tell him the real plan. Their relation is based on trust because that's what Madara could offer Kisame and Kisame was looking for desperatly.
    Kisame was certain that the whole world is ruled by lies, yet Madara was perfectly honest with him. He revealed all of his secrets to Kisame. Madara was doing the same gamble as with Sasuke.
    Outcome one: Madara loses. Here he had revealed everything to a capable shinobi who might disapprove to his plans and betray Madara immideately.
    Outcome two: Madara gains unlimited trust which won't change again because he revealed the truth right from the start.

    This way he created a very strong bond. Madara's calculations were perfect in this regards.
    As the world is full of lies, Kisame seemingly would rather approve to a genjutsu world where he might be able to find some truth in peace because there would be no need for betrayal and such things.
    I wonder about Madara... the might be a slightest chance that he has a friendly relationship to Kisame... well, I don't really think that such a guy is capable of having such a relationship, but we might see later.

    Yep, it's been the first review. I might write others if there are more chapters which run as deep as this one, so as long as Kishimoto produces really great chapters like this one I'll write
    But that certainly won't happen every week. I already thought about writing one last week, but somehow that chapter was just too plain, I mean I guess you can see what kind of events I prefer
    Last edited by Roflkopt3r; August 26, 2010 at 11:22 AM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Alterno's Avatar
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    Thumbs Up Re: Chapter 507: Kisame's Past

    I think Madara gave a fake plan to the Kages and they fell for it, probably have their doubts, but mostly it feels like they fell for it.

    Good review, welcome to the team. :P

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    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Roflkopt3r's Avatar
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    Re: Chapter 507: Kisame's Past

    Quote Originally Posted by Alterno View Post
    I think Madara gave a fake plan to the Kages and they fell for it, probably have their doubts, but mostly it feels like they fell for it.

    Good review, welcome to the team. :P
    Well, it's a different discussion but I think Madara talks true about his plans. That's mainly because of the symbols Kishimoto as the author used, they suit to the plan.
    Mangekyou Sharingan skills are Izanagi, Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu, Susanoo.
    Each of them is a shintoism god and each technique has a more or less certain relationship to the god.
    Izanagi was a primal god so it's the most powerful technique, Amaterasu was the godess of sun so the technique is based on powerful fire, Susanoo is the god of sea and storm, his technique is defensive (a vague relation but I think in some way there is one).
    Tsukuyomi as the god of moon makes it perfectly suitable that the same named technique would be used in relation with the moon, also seems to be the most important of the three siblings of Izanagi as far as I know, at least the one with most honors.

    That in this chapter we only see him saying "... that's my moon eye plan" should just sum up for us what happened without telling the whole plan again and wasting pages. Why should he tell the real name but a fake story? The important part is that he gained Kisame's trust by revealing everything to him.

    Apart from that topic, thanks

    One thing not related to that, I just didn't want to put it into the original post:
    When Tobi reveals himself to Kisame, he says "You, who are closest to me" and apologizes for deluding him the longest time. But I think Kisame knows that he can fully trust Madara because he is trustful to him and this is his only relation of that kind.
    He feels superior to the other Akatsuki guys because he knows what's really going on whereas they're fed with lies. That's a feeling based on the relation to Madara.
    So when Tobi reveals himself, he's thinking:
    "Ok, so he was playing around with those idiots" and will referr Madara's disguise only to the other Akatsuki members. He has the feeling of clarity and superiority whereas Madara plays this game of lies Kisame knows so well with the lower members.
    Last edited by Roflkopt3r; August 26, 2010 at 03:11 PM.

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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ashher's Avatar
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    Re: Chapter 507: Kisame's Past

    i can't agree with the dbz thing. you yourself said that it was due to the match up thing that kisame fell here,not because of guy is on top of him in power-hierarchy. while you are making the point that these new jutsus are making the jutsus previously called impressive look pale, i would like to say that these are finally making sense to why chidori and rasengan were still chuunin level jutsus.

    and i think haku and kisame isn't the same really. haku was loyal to a man only,while this chapter gives me the feeling that kisame's loyalty lied more to an ideal than to a man.kisame embraced a life of lie,but after meeting madara he chose his reason to lie,while haku remained naively 'pure' and all that usual shonen trash.

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    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Roflkopt3r's Avatar
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    Re: Chapter 507: Kisame's Past

    Quote Originally Posted by ashher View Post
    i can't agree with the dbz thing. you yourself said that it was due to the match up thing that kisame fell here,not because of guy is on top of him in power-hierarchy. while you are making the point that these new jutsus are making the jutsus previously called impressive look pale, i would like to say that these are finally making sense to why chidori and rasengan were still chuunin level jutsus.

    and i think haku and kisame isn't the same really. haku was loyal to a man only,while this chapter gives me the feeling that kisame's loyalty lied more to an ideal than to a man.kisame embraced a life of lie,but after meeting madara he chose his reason to lie,while haku remained naively 'pure' and all that usual shonen trash.
    Yeah it's right that Kisame doesn't exactly appear like Haku and lost his innocence long ago. Still, Madara is the personification of that plan. Without Madara, Moon's Eye won't work. Kisame obviously is treasuring that memory of the moment he met Madara and heard of his plan.
    But the pure fact that he found someone he can trust, what he does in the most extreme way now, seems to be more important to me than that plan, although it perfectly suits to Kisame.
    Trusting someone also is related to naivete, it means not doubting that person after all. So Kisame might've reclaimed his naivete at that point. It might be a personal view but I don't believe he only believes in the plan. I think he really got the first friendly bond to a human since a long long time at that point.

    Rasengan and Chidori were both described as powerful techniques way above chuunin level. Tsunade told Jiraiya that he shouldn't have make Naruto any hopes about ever learning Rasengan because it is an a-rank technique invented by Yondaime himself.
    Although it is a useful jutsu anyone can learn theoretically (no elemental restrictions), only Yondaime, his teacher, his most talented pupil and his son actually use this move.
    Chidori was the technique the clever and talented Kakashi invented when becoming a Jounin, and he still hadn't perfected it at that point. Even Gai spoke highly about it.
    These techniques were introduced as absolutely high level techniques on jounin niveau. Even jounin saw them in awe.
    Ok, A is topped by S. But I hoped that S-rank would remain rare and situational or a very special trait of a character and not beeing used everywhere everytime. Yeah sure it's a special trait of those characters using them, but almost every character uses one!

    A punch in the air shaking a whole island like a nuclear weapon, come on that's totally off the scale.

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Afi Sharingan's Avatar
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    Re: Chapter 507: Kisame's Past

    Actually i also dislike fact that there is more jutsus resembling mega blasts and destruction within miles,as it was in dbz,its my personal opinion.
    I`ve got to say that this is a ninja world,and up to some point of manga all jutsus was well suited for this world,while now we can see more of blasts,and explosion.
    I prefer to see more tactical fights based on ninja skills and some kekke genkai that doesnt cauze too much destroy within geographical areas.
    when i saw Naruto,Yamato and others covering themselfs from that blast it was exactly as it was in dbz after kamehamehas(which i was raised on),and i was hoping not to see it in Naruto.

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    Hound of Shadow 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member benelori's Avatar
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    Re: Chapter 507: Kisame's Past

    ^^But U know...since bijuus were introduced, big powerful jutsus were inbound...so these kind of jutsus shouldn't be a surprise...and anyway, this jutsu wasn't an energy blast or something that would be unrealistic for this manga...Hirutora was explained as a jutsu that compressed air...compressed air when exploded causes big shockwaves, and in the manga when somebody can open seven gates which release tremendous energy, such a shickwave would be powerful...

    The thing is that this jutsu isn't a one hit kill like Gai hyped it...Kisame survived it so that doesn't make it as powerful as a bijuu blast or a highly condensed rotating chakra ball with wind element added to it...and if I mentioned FRS, than we should notice the similarity between the jutsus...rasengan is a highly condensed rotating chakra ball, hirutora is high condensed air...when the pressure is applied by powerful chakar such as 7 gates chakra or senning chakra, the result is more destructive...

    Now...maybe I'm the only one who didn't read/watch DBZ, but these jutsus are in the realm which Kishi created, maybe except Gedo Mazo or Susanoo...and even those bring disadvantage for the user

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Afi Sharingan's Avatar
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    Re: Chapter 507: Kisame's Past

    I see your point Benelori,and understand,but ones you would watch dbz you would get where my point is going to(higher level obtained in dbz=longer hair and bigger explosion thats it.so predictable),now i see even more resemblance to dbz...
    If now we have such explosion,or blasts regarding any jutsus been used so far,then what kind of destruction will be ones bijuus are used into war,or Naruto will fully master 9 tails?
    We can expect even more big bangs,which is not what im looking for.
    At least Madara wants to cast a genjutsu which is solution that makes me more happy.
    I`m great fan battles of ninjas such as Jiraiya,Shikamaru,Kakashi,or Sasuke before he rely too much on MS,where tactics,speed,know;edge are involved and occasionally some ocular jutsu is used.
    I just dont want to end up seeing most of Narutoverse blow up,thats it.
    Anyway Roflkopt3r i hope i didnt push a dbz subject too far.

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Raijin_Thethundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Chapter 507: Kisame's Past

    Nice review.

    I noticed that now that you had put the chapter this way, I give more-and-more respect to Madara.
    You're right, he is a true master-criminal. To be able to make Kisame, a cold-blooded killer into a faithful subordinate. No wonder we were put in doubt regarding Kyuubi's attack in his story he told Sasuke.

    I agree with you, I prefer the earlier fights when even a single Kunai can be deadly if used the correct way. Not just throwing 'kameha-meha' -sorry I just had to write that ^_^- but to utilize your surrounding and tools you have in disposal.

    I kinda like Itachi vs Sasuke fight, it was balanced, between the use of jutsus and tactics, but I guess it's just me.

    Anyway, good job writing this great review.
    Looking forward to reading your next one.

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Afi Sharingan's Avatar
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    Re: Chapter 507: Kisame's Past

    Raijin_Thethundergod i agree with you regarding Sasuke-Itachi
    also the way Sasuke fought Deidara is type of fights i prefer to see.Not to mention shikamaru`s fights on chuunin exams...i hope to see more tactics involved in incoming war.
    Last edited by Afi Sharingan; September 01, 2010 at 05:59 AM. Reason: spelling mistake

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    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Roflkopt3r's Avatar
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    Re: Chapter 507: Kisame's Past

    Quote Originally Posted by Afi Sharingan View Post
    Raijin_Thethundergod i agree with you regarding Sasuke-Itachi
    also the way Sasuke fought Deidara is type of fights i prefer to see.Not to mention shikamaru`s fights on chuunin exams...i hope to see more tactics involved in incoming war.
    Yep, that's right. It feels like super high S-class jutsu even replaced tactics in the last time.
    Tactics? What for if the guy with the bigger BOOM has the upper hand? Very disappointing, especially in Gai versus Kisame.

    The original feeling was rather like "Hey, look, we don't need such jutsu because the guy with better skill, speed and brain wins. Why having something beyond Chidori and Rasengan when they already are absolutely lethal, after all we only have to practice speed and dexterity to hit with these jutsu."
    Now it's "Let's train some even bigger jutsu so I don't need skill to hit anymore but just go pow and everyone around me dies."

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