Since there are a lot of different and unfinished opinions. Let's gather here and discuss about kurono2 existance.
1. Reika mentioned suzuki-san (old man) three times, but the man in the ball (operator) didn't give a damn care about it. Pretending he didn't hear what she say. And stare her when she mention suzuki for the third time.
2. The man in the ball could refuse reika's wish "to revive" another Kurono. SINCE YOU CAN'T REVIVE AN ALREADY LIVING PERSON. But he still do it, I wonder why?
3. The man in the ball know almost everything. He knew that Sakurai isn't a cherry/virgin anymore. He knew that Reika is "kurono 1st fan" and how her "boobs got bigger and she miss kurono very much". He knew that izumi want to return to gantz room and more importantly HE KNEW that Izumi WILL FULFILL his request to kill 300 people if he want to return to the room. If the gantz man send the invitation to kurono/reika/HS etc, will they obey him? In Izumi case, did the man in gantz ball manipulate him through his wish or the-other-way around?
4. If only Suzuki-san and Inaba still alive after greece mission, reika got 100 point, did she got enough guts to summon another kurono in front of kurono1 and others gantzer? Did the man in the ball purposely arrange so there only two of the in the room so she can freely request for creating kurono2?
1b. When Reika went back to the apartment the Gantz man recalled that she had earned one hundred points and asked her a second time what it was. She didn't say Suzuki's name. She sort of said half of it, with hesitation. It didn't show her choice 'on-screen' and if I recall correctly it actually ended the chapter on that point. Either way, it was later revealed that she chose Kei at the last second.
2. There are no rules about creating a duplicate of yourself or others. The Gantz man doesn't actually give a fuck. He let the two Kishimoto's co-exist.
3. Everything that the Gantz ball knows about it's players can be gained through surveillance. We know it monitors everyone constantly, even off mission, because it was following the biker from mission 2, eliminating him when he tries to take on a entire rival gang alone (done in order to prevent the technology falling into the 'wrong' hands).
4a. They didn't KNOW that Izumi would definitely do it, but they could definitely be reasonably certain. Anyone can see that Izumi is a sociopath. Teasing him with his lost memories and the 'thrill of the hunt' was enough to get him to go on a crime spree. Not that it was necessary. Gantz can pluck dead people from the street at will. Izumi was most likely used as a special event for the gamblers in Tokyo (around the world?).
4b. The Gantz man did not purposely arrange for Reika to forget her clothes.... does that really need further explanation?
4c. Why does the Gantz man give a shit all of a sudden about people's feelings? Why would he create special circumstances for Reika of all people? Why would he secretly want a second Kei rather than Suzuki? You could argue that having another Kei is going to have a huge impact on Katastrophe, but since when has Gantz cared about the outcome of hunts? Whoever's behind Gantz has already got their own plans in motion. They don't need Kei.
in the version i read she did say Suzuki a couple of times
but the question is would the Gantz guy let her change her choice after saying it twice. hmmm
Gantz is very glitchy it has made copies of people a few times now.
The first time the ball turns off, so it couldn't download anyone from the memory.
When the guy is out Reika has the chance to ask again, She said "Suzuki..." but then she change her mind, now i don't see Reika calling the old man by his last name alone without a "San", the first time she said "Revive Yoshikazu Suzuki San".
Remember the "i couldn't give you up Kurono!"? in the summaries that describe that part of the story they mention Reika did asked for Kurono. Also, the guy in the ball is a weirdo and the ball was malfunctioning, maybe the one malfunctioning was him or maybe is completely allowed to create several copies of one person?
Reika mention suzuki name three time. At first she already said his full name. Afraid the ball "being glitchy", she said his full name close to the ball at second time. The third time she said suzuki and goes silent for two panels. Why the man still waiting after he said "quickly" to reika. If he is genie in the bottle in Aladin story he won't wait that long.
This is the third time she said it:
Compare it with nishi wish:
There is no delay when nishi reward given.
Look at her first wish page (At the last panel in the page the ball is still clearly function):
She said it again:
The strange thing is everytime she said it the ball goes blank. I don't think this is a coincidence. And if you count that she return to the room because she hear noises as coincidence too. There are too many coincidence here.
If you read this:
Did the man in the ball fell asleep? He is the operator of the ball. Of course he hear Reika said it twice and when others screaming for old-man name. I can see him smirking at third panel "who was it again?"
2. Kishimoto is one different case. Gantz man didn't create kishimoto through second 100-point-reward. You can't use it as comparison. The second option is "REVIVE" if the US translation is correct. In Kurono2 case it should written as "RECREATE". Using logic sense, you can't revive an already living person, but you can clone/recreate it.
3. We have different opinions here, and this is why I didn't agree with what you said about "glitchy". Gantz ball isn't just a machine but also with an operator inside it. Do you remember what Gantz ball in Osaka said after singing doraemon theme? "You all have died, your lives belong to me now". The man in the ball chose people to become its soldiers, give them mission, counting their points, give them option to chose their rewards. It wasn't the other way around, it wasn't the player who control the ball, but the players were manipulated by the ball (or more correctly by the operator inside the ball). Like we all knew the ball isn't human technology and it's glitch is unacceptable, that's why there is one operator inside the ball. What if the ball suddenly goes blank (glitch) when they only half-done transferred? It's game over. Plus if you remember the ball never got "a single glitch" in gantz minus and gantz chapter 1 until now. So it's GLITCH FREE
4a. The man in the ball only send one invitation. That is to Izumi. More importantly he/they know Izumi apartment, and know his closet. Izumi was free from gantz at the time. How come they gather information about Izumi? Even in her wildest dream I don't believe Izumi mother will ever dream his son become a terrorist. It show enough that the man in the ball know exactly every information about them, and what is their reaction gonna be.
4b. The coincidence that I said here isn't reika forget to take her clothes. But how the man in the ball pick up the same time to get out and make noises when she pick her clothes. He could just sleep in the ball and wake up tomorrow morning. Like I said I don't believe it was a coincidence. Too many coincidence, if you count it was four sequence coincidence (two-times-goes-blank, noise-at-the-same-time-reika-pick-her-jacket, willingly-waiting-for-her-after-she-goes-silent).
4c. Remember what the ball opinion about suzuki:
"way to calm, too weak"
If this is a gambling market. Are you willing buy wayne rooney or someone who just learn how to pay soccer for the same price?
Kurono got 100 point, he go through a dinosaurs mission without wearing gantz clothes. He is the hero that killed oni alien, etc. I don't need to say it, he is far a better weapon than Suzuki.
Last edited by topkomputer; August 15, 2010 at 07:49 PM.
I don't think so. I mean Reika coming back to the room was completely random. She wouldnt have came back, if she did not forget her clothes.Quote:
I'm leaning towards it being a glitch, seeing as how the whole system was acting weird.
The Gantz man asks her who she wanted to revive again. Implying he didn't hear the first time, couldn't remember or was just dicking around because he knew who she actually wanted to revive.
On the next page, we have Reikia saying revive the old man but stops mid way, she really did not finish her train of thought. Then we have Kurono being revived again, without hearing what Reiki said because it happened off panel.
On this page, we have Reika confirming that she in-fact revived him on purpose, in the part we did not see.
Reika returning to the closet take her forgotton jacket, not to the room where gantz ball exist. The time the man in the ball awake precisely when she is picking her jacket, that she hear noises and enter the room.
She said suzuki name for the third time. It's clear that the operator already hear it for the third times. Between suzuki word she goes silent for two panels. I agree with you that he wait until her train of tought stop, but does he have any obligation to wait while she reconsider it? The last suzuki part is heard clear enough just like the case when Sakurai being revived.
If you want to refute/disapprove point one and two just bring us proves, not words. I'm willing to admit my defeat.
Point three, I have different opinion here. Damura and charlie-san said the gantz ball are machine who can glitched. I'm saying the gantz ball are glitch-free. Because the gantz ball is not just a machine but also with an operator inside it. This is alien technology made by human for gambling market in german. It can not glitched, for example if they were transfered to a place or return to the room, when they only get transfered from head until their chests, suddenly the machine got a glitch/black out. The players are dead, game over. It can't glitched. There is no such thing from gantz minus, gantz chapter 1 until now that the operator and machine make such a thing. It just turn off at Reika case. It did goes blurry when it show Kurono's point. But at reika case, it was immediately went blank.
Point four, I've given all the proves that the ball knew exactly what the player doing and it sometimes interfere for its own benefit. The last prove that I have is the ball decided to blew a player head outside the mission and outside the gantz room when a player using gantz power for his benefit and risking to spoil the information out. On the other way you didn't have any prove that the gantz ball know nothing about the players.
The key here is not Reika, but what do you think about Gantz ball and the man inside it (operator)? Are they just a machine who follow every your order? Or the machine is the master in gantz scope and it manipulate/control the players?
Last edited by topkomputer; August 15, 2010 at 07:51 PM.
Whether its called, revive or recreate or clone, in the Gantz world it doesn't really matter in my opinion. My reasoning is that, all the Gantz members inculding Kei-1 are clones or recreations of the originals, who has in-fact died.
If I recall correctly, Nishi said they're more akin to fax copies.
Even though the ability to bring back someone from the dead exists in both worlds, it inherently differs from Dragon-ball. I also think the analogy with Dragonball cant be used here.
Since the Gantz setup is built like a game, I believe whomever achieves the games pre set point requirement, has to be awarded with their choice.
Now dealing with the guy, he could have said, it's too late.... just leave. However he decided to reward Reika for achieving the 100 point menu.
Now whether that was because of the games set requirement or not, I don't know. We really don't know too much of the guy, or Gantz to say what its motives are.
I have to think it was just a coincidence. I really don't believe it was anything more than that.Quote:
The first two times, I'll give it the benefit of the doubt because of the (alleged) glitch.Quote:
During the third time, he asked her who she wanted to revive.
I think it ultimately comes down to Reika's choice. She made the firm decision on who to revive. Hence we got the second Kei.
Gantz man - who do you want to revive again? I'll load them up for you.
Reika - Susuki............
Gantz Man - Goes over to the ball.
Reika - Wait! Please revive Kei Kurono. I want to revive Kurono kun.
Gantz Man - Stares at Reika, and revives the second Kurono.
Now personally I don't think that the Gantz man really cares about who she revived. Knowing the comments he makes after the games are over, he probably had a lol moment.
Kid: "Mom, I want candies."
Mom: "But you just have one." or
Mom: "Here take it".
In this case the decision given by the man becoming really important. He can refuse it.
No obligation to wait reika finish her words. The suzuki part is heard clear enough. She goes silent for two panels. We can't count the time she goes silent. Probably a minute or less. But the man could just press the button to revive suzuki.
Charlie-san, the man finger has already pointed the buttons inside the ball, he didn't have to go to the ball anymore. After she said suzuki, he could just press it. But he wait her to finish her toughts.
Last edited by topkomputer; August 15, 2010 at 08:10 PM.
We can allege or conjecture a whole lot scenarios.
Maybe he gets out of the ball every-time after the missions are over, after the players have all left.
Maybe before Katastrophe struck, he couldn't get out of the ball or wasn't allowed to? Perhaps his actions were limited before.
I have read it, that's why I used "alleged" in the previous reply. We have a difference of opinion concerning the event, obviously.Quote:
The Gantz ball/tech is obviously machinery, there shouldn't be any doubt on that.Quote:
I think the guy is human, and he can use the machines interface with his hand or head or however he does it normally.
Now........... in the future, the guy maybe revealed as something else, who knows. It's possible.
Generally speaking, you wait for someone to finish speaking before taking action.
Now, in this case with the Gantz man and Rekia, the guy may have been searching the database for the old man, when Reikia changed her mind.
Very possible, because he has to load them.
The second possible scenario, is while he was loading the database or turning it on (because the ball died or turned off), Reika said she wanted to revive Kurono. In both case's he obliged because it was her decision to make for wining the 100 points.
The ball didn't glitch when Nishi asked for his reward. That's all there is. It's not some big conspiracy theory to fulfill Reika's "pure wish!"
i think some that knows japanese should go ask oku on his twitter
maybe he will let us know
(hehe doubt it though)
This isn't going anywhere. The ball isn't glitchy. Prove it was glitchy before or after. The ball make impression it was glitchy, so it has a reason to disapprove Reika reviving suzuki and send rest of the players home after he show them all their scores. He remember Reika asking to revive someone and ask her again. He took the initiative to ask her. If the machine is glitchy he could just go out the room ignoring her. Reika didn't ask him to get her reward, he is the one that took the initiative. The first impression we get from the lolicon, that he was also a rapist. Oku show us in the end it was wrong.
The ball definitely the master in the room. The players are the servants. And like usual say "A master never did anything wrong." He didn't have to conspiracy to fullfill reika's pure wish. He is the master in the room. He can do as he please as long as not against the rules.
@Damura, just prove it that two coincidence the ball went blank are glitches. Show us did the ball ever did a tiny mistake before. He give the people suits just based on their body size. He never did any error from the beginning until now. No gltich until now. Prove it to me then I'll admit that your theory is right.
@charlie-san, I don't think he can load the database only with one finger. Georve-marvin also said it once. His finger probably already pointed at kurono in touch screen.
Last edited by topkomputer; August 16, 2010 at 02:23 AM.
This is rediculus. Im so mad that people think she asked for the old man.
first time: Asked for old man because of peer pressure gantz was too glitched to follow through
second time: she started to say the old man hesitated theirfor gantz waied for her to finish THEN SHE SAID KEI KORONO
END OF STORY THIS IS SO OBVIOUS
all the line after would not make sence SHE APOLOGIZED TO KEI and kei said what did you do. and she cried IT IS SO DAMN CLEAR she was selfish and asked for kei
I would dispute your point one by one but all the other members did that already
Here is a direct quote for the person here who TRANSLATES AND BRINGS US GANTZ
GAT and he knows alot more about gantz then most recent posters in the gantz forums
"Guys please read my previous post, it's confirmed that she said Kurono Off-Screen -____-
I don't know why some still refuses to accept that, i think it was obvious."
one more thing to the people who say that oku would have said korono and not "..."
Its called suspense people understand your reading a manga this is a very very VERY common thing to do in manga
Last edited by Kozar927; August 16, 2010 at 07:24 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Look at all the typo mistakes and no lights. It even started to show the writing on the ball saying thats the last mission then kurono gets transfered in. Chapter 296 even says on the first page "Gantz, breaking down." then the screen goes nuts and in the last page it says gantz is malfunctioning. Then it was like a crappy old tv you hit.
Now what happen next was purely fate/chance Cherry told her she forgot her clothes, the gantz man was out and ask her, she automatic said suzuki as thats the team thing to do but then stop and realise thats not what she wants so she said kurono.
Gantz didn't plot anything, it was just chance.
Point is Oku text said gantz was going nuts, the italy mission is perfect for that. In other words the gantz ball was 'Shuting Down' as it was the mission.