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here's my understanding and ideas/thoughts on this:
1. (Yoma) Body Abilities (requires/uses Yoki)
shape-shifting, size-shifting, Tentacles, changing neck/lynax/voice box for a deeper/masculine voice, Regeneration, Healing, Re-Attachment, Partial Awakening, Golden/Yellow eyes, Muscle Bulking, Bulgy Veins, Phantom Step, Neck Twisting, Arm Twisting, Arm Extension, Awakening, maintaining Awakened body, maintaining Partial Awakened body, Rods, and etc...
2. Yoki Abilities ("Magical/The Force from Star Wars Abilities")
Yoki Sensing (All of the different types), Yoki Suppression, Yoki Manipulation, Yoki Control, Soul Link, Mind Transfer, Yoki Focusing, Yoki Bursts, "Rafaela's Merging Attempt", and etc...
3. Sword Techniques (requires/uses Yoki, think "Magical Sword Techniques")
Gentle Sword, Shadow Chaser, Quick Sword, and etc...
4. Sword Techniques (Physcial Sword Techniques, NO yoki is used/required)
Rippling Sword, Windcutter, Drill Sword, Strong Sword, Jump Sword, Dual Swords, and etc...
5. (Yoma) Body Ability (NO Yoki required/used)
Yoki can be sent into the body (to activate the Yoma body's inhuman/superhuman abilities), used almost as if it was like "Magic" or "the Force in Star Wars" or "Mental/Telepathy/Telekinesis", used/enhanced/enchanted with their swords for a "Magical Sword Technique", or whatever combination of these.
So, Ophelia could be releasing/using Yoki for her body, but her sword itself has/uses NO Yoki with her Rippling Sword. Clare sensed the Yoki within Ophelia's body/arm, but since the Rippling Sword was a physical sword technique, Clare had no Yoki to sense within the sword itself, so she had to use her eyes to parry it, HOWEVER, due to the physical blur created from Ophelia's Yoki-hyper-Jerking hand/arm, Clare's unable to accurately see where the sword is, and thus Clare got sliced up by it. The blur is creating the same visual distration as the plume/feathery thing on the end of spears used by asians, that's my understanding and what I mean by the Rippling Sword being physical - having NO yoki, but Ophelia's body is flowing with yoki of course.
hopefully this makes more sense, at my outlook at it. Whether you agree or disagree is another matter, but hopefully at least I made sense with what I had meant to mean, lol.
well, I have my own explaination as well, on it, laughs.
it's a bit scientific.
Galatea can sense inside the body, think of an MRI or an X-Ray
but Clare+Teresa can sense being an MRI or X-Ray, they can not just see inside the body, but inside the inside of the body, at the cellular, molecular, or atomic level (seeing inside the cells, molecules, or atoms of the inside of the body)
that's how I distinguish Galatea not quite being at the PYS (or as I now call it, ELYSA = Electrode-Like Yoki Sensing Ability) level that Clare+Teresa enjoy, hehe
I personally feel that Teresa can sense as far as Galatea... but that's jsut fan-dom as there's no real evidence to how far she can sense...
(Teresa did sense all 7 NYs at least at the town's gate. Teresa did already sense that Rosemary was an AO, upon her arrival. so you can be the judge of how far you think Teresa can actually sense, hehe. I think Trainee Teresa sensed Rafaela all the way from the Org HQs and "ran away" to meet/investigate this interesting Yoki suppressing Claymore, named Rafaela, hehe )
Clare can sense almost as far as Galatea (back during the "Spiderman" male AB battle)
Tabatha can sense internally and very far as well, just like Galatea, both of them were able to sense Agatha's real body movement within her exoskeleton Awakened body.
Cynthia too could sense very far.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; April 15, 2011 at 02:34 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
HelloOriginally Posted by HegemonKhan
Ok. Then tell Me what have You got on mind with this "" ? Swords can not awake or can not radiate Yoki. How ?Originally Posted by HegemonKhan
Because then Quick Sword is also Non Yoki Technique, because User awakening only arm and not sword, which does not use Yoki. Right ?
Then Wind Cutter, which is pure physical ability versus QS as We saw fight between Clare and Flora. Clare was able to parry Flora hits without viewing them, and without sensing Yoki of Flora only because fighting blindly. And as Clare mentioned after this fight, that technique which has better accuracy wins over strong one, right? Swords are merely a tools, so when Ophelia used Her Yoki to boost speed of using it, it is Yoki using technique, when Flora used it without Yoki it is pure physical technique. Jean Drill Sword is physical technique, She did not use Yoki, but only changed Her arm into spiral, thus for that She can also used Yoki, as Deneve with Her stretching arms, so this could be also Yoki using technique, but to strengthen body, not sword, not tool. Because when Flora will used Her Yoki in about 30% and then She used Wind Cutter, this will be Yoki or non Yoki technique? Point of view depends from situation of using this techniques. But Clare will not be able to use QS without awaking of arm thus use Her Yoki, and Ophelia also, because as Goral mentioned:Ophelia must used Her Yoki to be able to use RS like Clare must do it to use QS. But Ophelia technique was more adjustable, because She needs only 30% of Yoki flow and not 100% in one arm like QS required.Originally Posted by Goral
Have a good day
Clare's "Projecting" Quick Sword has to use Yoki as it is a "Magical Sword Technique", as it's not physically possible (defies physics) to do so:
Clare slices the tree not only behind Jean but also well out of range as well, and Clare never moves.
Clare slices Dauf's arms obviously well out of range, while she never moves.
Both of these examples had to be done via the "Magic of the Yoki", so think of it as a "Magical/Spell/Enchanted/Infused Sword Technique"
Irene's abilities or inabilities with the Quick Sword is still a mystery to us.
now, disregarding the sword itself, the Quick Sword also needs/use/requires:
"Yoki Focusing Ability" (well, Clare's "Projecting" and "Controlled/Non-berserk" does anyways)
100% Yoki goes into the arm (I still haven't seen any mention of whether this is merely 100% of the yoki that is released, or whether this is actually 100% YR... which to me seems HIGHLY IMprobable...)
we have other examples of physics-defying Sword Techniques, as well:
Audrey's Gentle Sword, that allows her to control what her sword touches (somewhat similar to that blond-haired Lt., ?Kira?, of what was Gin's Squad in Bleach, where anything his sword touches becomes heavier), as seen Audrey controls Riful's own Ribbon-Tentacles back against Riful, obviously has to be "enchanted" with Yoki as a "Magical/Spell/Enchanted/Infused Sword Technique", as its controlling effect is obviously beyond a mere physical aspect of the sword, lol.
We also got Nina's Shadow Chaser/Hunter Sword Technique, that is also obviously beyond a physical Sword Technique as well.
Do we know if Flora was using Yoki for her Windcutter, or were there scenes where she was doing the Windcutter without YR ???
also, the Windcutter is a complete mystery, as I don't think it has ever been explained how it works. For all we know it could be nothing like how the Quick Sword works, as do you really think Flora could have put 100% Yoki into her arm just like Irene could, and maintain it so easily or even better than Irene could? HARDLY! BAH!
Last edited by HegemonKhan; April 17, 2011 at 02:01 PM.
AndOriginally Posted by HegemonKhan
HelloOriginally Posted by HegemonKhan
So as above You first claim, that Wind Cutter is non Yoki technique and then You wrote, that You are not sure it is or not. ?
And I wrote, that it depends from situation in which technique is used. But some of them needs Yoki release to work, other not or can be used with Yoki release also, to be more boosted. And in Pieta, on Claymore gathering Flora used this technique and Jean was explain that for Us and Clare improved this technique in Her training with Yoki suppression (no Yoki, just pure physical strength and abilities) as an Ghost. But this technique can be also used with Yoki release.
But as Goral mentioned, and I checked this also Ophelia was used Yoki.
But then question should be if Rippling Sword could be used without releasing Yoki as Wind Cutter, or not. ? Because once again if Flora had use Her Yoki on that scene in Pieta, everybody will be notice it, right? Miria, Deneve, Undine, Clare with Her YSA, all 24 Claymores where be able to sense Flora's Yoki. Right ?
So Wind Cutter is technique which can be used without Yoki release or with to improve it, but if the same could be written about Rippling Sword ? But because, once again, Ophelia used Yoki, so I think that it is like QS but not with full awakening of arm. So Rippling Sword was Yoki using technique.
Have a good day
err, sorry for the confusion, the Windcutter is still a mystery/enigma. I just accidentally included it under a purely physical sword technique (no yoki at all is required both for the body and for the sword itself), on my own leaning opinion that it is, which is completely different than the Quick Sword, obviously.
my point is that:
1. (some) Sword techniques can be done without yoki going to the body and without going to the sword as well, requiring no yoki at all.
2. Yoki can be used to enhance the body (use the Yoma body's abilities, to be superhuman/inhuman in strength, speed, reaction time, and etc, or do things that the human can't do), which is needed to do the sword technique itself, but it itself remains physical with no yoki coming from it, only from the body as the body is receiving the yoki, not the sword itself.
3. Yoki can be just used to enhance the body, to merely make the sword technique more powerful, but it itself remains physical with no yoki coming from it, only from the body as the body is receiving the yoki, not the sword itself.
4. Yoki can be infused (or since you like/know metalurgy, tempered/alloyed, lol) along with the sword technique to create a "magical sword technique" that does stuff beyond a merely physical sword technique, such as seen with Audrey's Gentle Sword and Nina's Shadow Chaser/Hunter and Clare's "Projected" Quick Sword.
so which Sword techniques fall under #1, which under #2, which under #3, which under #4, which under whatever combination of 2 of them or which under all three of them?
Last edited by HegemonKhan; April 17, 2011 at 02:19 PM.
? What? If Yoki is an electrical charge I will accept this, because electricity is conducted by metals. But We don't know what is Yoki, except that it is some kind of organic energy, thus I rather doubt, that it can be sent by user to piece of metal (or whatever is that material which from claymores are made)
There is no such a thing, like Yoki energy flow thru claymores. But only ability to sense movement of awakened body part of opponent. Like Miria said it during hunt in mountains, that opponent sends Yoki to part of body which It wants to use at the moment. And it does not matter if He/She holding a sword, use tentacles, or stretching His/Hers arms, legs. Clare (and Teresa also) can feel movement of body which contain Yoki not a sword which is only a tool and expand range of attack. That is why Clare admitted to Flora in their fight, that Wind Cutter is better technique than QS, because it is more accurate, and do not use Yoki, thus it can not be detected by YSA developed by Clare. And Clare fight blindly and She consisted only on speed of Her awakened arm, even thus She has it already developed to better accuracy than previously. And when Clare fights against Ophelia, She was able to detect this Yoki flow in Ophelia's awakened arm on 30%, but She was to weak and slow to parry it. But that flow comes from Ophelia's arm, not from Her sword.
So from where did You get theory, that Yoki can flow thru the claymore swords? Or maybe swords can awake also with their users?
Have a good day
PS. And here I will put quote from Yours expanded post:
So I once again will ask: from where did You get idea, that Yoki can be sent to swords?Originally Posted by HegemonKhan
And to answer on all 4 points: all sword technique can be reinforced by using of Yoki! From basic cut to extremely developed Wind Cutter. Then My question was: which one can not be done without using of Yoki!
Clare can not use QS without Yoki release, Ophelia can not use RS without YR (or maybe She can, but We did not know anything about it), Flora was able to use WC without YR but She probably could boost it when She would use Yoki, simply by boost other physical abilities needed to this technique. As We saw Clare after training with Her Yoki suppression.
Once again have a nice day
Last edited by colonywars; April 17, 2011 at 03:00 PM. Reason: HegemonKhan editions of post :)
actually... some good ol' electrical and bio-electrical physics, lol...
both man and machine uses electricity... which is why man (brain+nervous system) work with machines...
people with lost limbs (arms) are given prothetics, and their brains can control their prosthetic arms. Nerves can be connected to electrical wires or electrodes, whatever, (I don't know electrical engineering/physics that well, so forgive my fumbling at it)
the electrical signal from the brains' synapsis and nerves is the same electrical current that the electronics in the prothetic arm uses.
there's also machines with electrodes on the person's head, where he merely thinks and the computer does what he's thinking.
Electricity is electicity, and both metals and ionized liquids like the water+Salt in our bodies produce polar charges and thus act as currents/conduits for electricity to travel along.
(the classic grade school "science project" of using wires in a lemon to produce a battery and to charge something up, hehe. metals are NOT the only things that produce polar magnetic charges, "+" and "-" ions, which is what electricity is: E-M force, the Electrical-Magnetic force, along with the 3 other forces: Gravity Force, Strong Force - nuclear energy, and Weak Force -Radioactive Decay - release of Radiation)
we actually give off an electrical field, which prompts a sharks curiosity as it can sense electricity, just as a boat's motor's electrical field prompts a sharks curiosity.
so, Yoki is actually quite supported (to a degree) by real life science
I gave examples already of "Magical (Yoki infused/tempered/alloyed) Sword Techniques" that can NOT be explained any other way, but here they are again:
Nina's Shadow Chaser/Hunter Sword
Clare's "Projected" Quick Sword
Audrey's Gentle Sword
Last edited by HegemonKhan; April 17, 2011 at 09:07 PM.
new match ups:
How will our new conestants:
Cassandra, Hysteria, and Roxanne
fair against the other rank 1 Claymores ???
Speculate and defend your speculations!
rank 1 Claymores:
Isley- we never see him perform as a Claymore
Riful- we never see her perform as a Claymore
Luciela- we never see her perform as a Claymore
04. Rafaela - we never see her perform, and some may consider her beyond a rank 1 Claymore, but she can be used
Rosemary- we never see her perform as a Claymore
06. Teresa - she's beyond a rank 1 Claymore
07. Priscilla - she's possibly beyond a rank 1 Claymore, but she may not be as well
08. Alicia - We've seen her perform slightly (vs Riful and vs Priscilla), albiet its moot as the battle was already so corrupted with Riful due to the AFs, Huge Porjectiles, and Priscilla inferences
09. Beth - we only see her dodging Dauf
10. Miata - we do see her perform, however she's still immature and the battle was corrupted a bit too, though we can envision and use a Matured Miata, hehe
11. Irene - arguably she could be a rank 1 Claymore
Last edited by HegemonKhan; July 03, 2011 at 03:24 AM.
I'd like to see Irene vs Hysteria. That'd be really interesting to see.
And may I ask why Rafaela would be considered beyond a rank 1? It was said she was equal to her sister but was made a Rank 2 because she's the one who would be maintaining the Soul Link (I assume). From what we know of Luciela as a Claymore, she was just a regular number 1 until she awakened and became an AO.
Anyway, if my prediction about Roxanne is correct (that she goes Berserker mode when she releases) then I'd like to see her fight Miata.
Speaking of Miata, I had a question. It's been said and shown that Claymores don't age because Yoma's don't age. But Trainees already have Yoma flesh in their bodies when they're training but they still grow into adults (as seen by flashbacks of Teresa and Clare). So I would guess Claymores stop maturing when they reach their physical prime (which would explain why some Claymore look older than others). Do you think this leaves some hope that Miata will mature both physically and mentally? Because right now she seems to have the appearance and mental capacity of a 7 or 8 year old.
Last edited by White Silver King; July 03, 2011 at 03:58 PM.
actually I think I noticed something:
at first I just saw it as Yagi's artwork improving.
but if you look at ch 1 Clare, she's actually quite short and a bit girly still, same height as the Humans, in fact.
so, ch 1 Clare was still growing, as we now see her taller, and more mature-womanly.
I think we saw Clare finish out her growth as a Claymore over the course of the manga.
Miata should grow (as Miata and Trainee Clare are clones exact for their faces, hehe), as Claymores do grow to their prime/maturity, as seen by Clare (Human Child -> Trainee -> ch 1 Claymore -> ch 116-currently)
there is Riful, but she's an AO, and we see that Awakeneds can choose their height as seen by Priscilla. (Isley too wasn't eating humans, yet he didn't shrink... Priscilla intentially shrunk... and then returned to her normal size when she wanted to, in Ticheri to go kill Clare). So, Riful probably just like that size and appearance, as she should be able to change it if she wanted to do so
To discuss versus roxxane and Irene.
Before, I would look at what level the sword is quick Irene. Recall that the swift sword of Clare, (50% of Irene) was windbreak Flora similar. Then we saw that the windbreaker was very weak vs the Yoki Raphaela suppressed. This suggests that the swift sword of Irene is not as powerful. With any number 1 would defend it.
This is assuming that the mental battle Clare and Raphaela was equal in material reality.
On the other hand, Roxanne is strong because skills copied or without using the skills she already has a very strong? I really do not know.
I need to see more action Roxane to discuss this interesting verus.
Last edited by su5so; August 10, 2011 at 02:49 PM.
1. Rafaela > Ilena , This is proven by their ranks and Ilena's own words before Rafaela "supposedly" killed her.
2. Ilena's Quicksword > Clare's Quicksword.
3. Clare's Quicksword = Flora's Windcutter, They dueled before with both using full power. It ended with a draw. The conclusion was; that Clare's Quicksword was faster attack that hit many times , but Flora's Windcutter was a single attack that's more precise and packs a greater punch. It's like an uzi vs a rifle.
4. Flora's Windcutter > Clare's Windcutter, Clare claimed her Quicksword was her most powerful technique after her Windcutter failed to impressed Rafaela. That can only conclude that Clare's Windcutter was weaker then Flora's Windcutter, since Flora's Windcutter was equal to Clare's Quicksword.
On other note, I think Cassandra would have a real hard time going up against Riful. Cassandra's attack relies on her being low to the ground, but Riful can basicly turn parts of her body in to the ground itself or buried her ribbons under the ground and shoot upward.
Last edited by Khorr; August 10, 2011 at 07:45 PM.
probably the best display of Irene's Quick Sword:
Slicing up the two NYs... AND THEIR BLOOD AND GUTS, SO THAT NONE OF IT LANDED UPON HER, hehe
Ophelia, Sophia, and Noel couldn't even see the Quick Sword of Irene.
I personally feel Irene is a rank 1, and was merely "dwarfed" by the uber ranks: Teresa, Priscilla, and Rafaela
Why is Rafaela put into the same class as Teresa and Priscilla? I never got that impression about her.