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It's so incredibly illogical to say that Madara as he is right now wouldn't "do shit" to Hashirama.
So, basically.....correct me if I'm wrong, please:
Hashirama was stronger Madara. That's established.
so......ET Madara w/ Rinnegan and Hashirama's abilities can't touch Hashirama?
That makes so little sense I don't even know how to argue against it.
My interpretation: The only reason Hashirama might still be able to stop an overpowered immortal zombie is because that zombie uses the Mokuton that Hashirama so beautifully developed. As it is now, Hashirama does not have the same lasting power that Madara currently has, even with his special healing abilities and what have you.
I'm not even going to touch the main point of the thread. All I have to say is WOW.
---------- Post added at 01:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:36 AM ----------
Orochimaru was almost impossible to stop by that time. That's why fellow Konoha Shinobi wished Minato was there, as he was the only one that could stop Orochimaru at that point.
It's not about winning the debate or not. I just can't seem to see bringing all these pieces together without violating consistency (=
Yeah.... who knows at this point?
I think a lot of things in the manga have been thrown out the window, so it's hard to form a coherent argument with supporting evidence. Because something from the earlier part of the story will clash with something later.
Could be. If Madara and Hashirama are now super-badass, Kishi could very well make the 3rd even MORE badass in some other flashback, you know?
But... you know what? I really don't dwell on such things in Naruto anymore!
W8, w8 Hashirama would stomp Madara? You people really make me go "wtf". The EMS version of Madara was just about EQUAL to Hashirama, they had a lot of battles ending in DRAWS. Then 1 last, long battle where Hashirama finaly defeated Madara be a hair... Where do you people get this Hashirama turning Madara into a fodder (some other guy said this)or stomping him? Then Hiruzen stomping Hashirama? Even asuming he is stronger by no means he is stomping anything.Quote:
Also you fail to take into account diferent counter that people have. If you do not have a good counter to Amaterasu like Raikage then you die and you are not able to do shit.
How is Sarutobi even getting passed Hashirama's INSANE regen if he does not decide to kill himself?
You know its posible for Madara>Sarutobi>Hashirama>Madara considering that Sarutobi does not have the exact tools Hashirama has. Just because Hashirama can put down Madara and Sarutobi can put down Hashirama it does not mean Sarutobi can put down Madara.
Now based on hype, CURENT hype Madara was INVINCIBLE if you do NOT put Hashirama into the ecuacion. Nobody but HASHIRAMA could stop him.
This here is a clear indication of Kishi changing shit as the manga whent on. He needed Madara to be THAT good and for that Hashirama needed to be God of shinobi and that is what he is now.
It was made clear that Orochimaru did not know the DG seal. Sarutobi himself said so and Oro confirmed it. Obviously AFTER it was used on Orochimaur he knew about it... Then Orochimaur simply told Kabuto about it. Orochimaru simply did not know at that time he tried to pull Minato that the DG seal existed, then after he himself got hit by it he obvliously knew about it and informed Kabuto to.Quote:
Last edited by xXan; December 29, 2012 at 03:54 AM.
People say that Tsunade is the weakest kage ever but based on feats i honestly think she would beat Sarutobi's ass.
His fights involved him having comrades on the battlefield. He would MOST DEFENETLY defened them and himself. At best you can claim he would not land the killing blow if possible but no moron would not go all out because he likes peace. Those where life and death situation where he was puting his life, the life of his comrades and the future of his clan on the line. There is no way he was going easy on Madara because he likes peace.
Oviously if he could complete his mission by avoiding fighting Madara he would take it BUT if the engage happened he would fight to his best. In the end Hashirama was a shinobi.
Well, maybe madara forgetting something that he's an ET and had the rinnegan when he claimed those statement.
And maybe kabuto lied about something. He was a mad sciencetist who did the experiment on madara's body/powers. So maybe he just forgot to include madara on the list,that
Hashirama's power is a myth like the rikudou's sennin.
But rather, madara and hashirama's power are a myth like the rikudou sennin. Yeah,
With that, we can assume that madara already surpassed hashiram when he gained the rinnegan.
With that, we can assume that madara's power can touch hashirama.
With that, we can assume that madara can easily kick hashirama's ass.
But the problem is, what if kabuto didn't lied?
What if kabuto knew that the difference between madara's power aka rinnegan couldn't still surpassed hashirama's power, who died last 50 years ago?
Do you really think that the legendary power of madara is almost comparable to hashirama's power as a myth?
I'm not convinced Hashirama could stop Edo Madara, I do think he can stop EMS Madara however, they are probably pretty close in power, I would say Hiruzen is a step below that with the 2nd Hokage under him.
I do not believe Hiruzen could defeat Hashirama but I do believe both he and Minato could hold their own in that group of power houses, you can't take what we saw then VS what we saw now, words are important, all dialogue implies people like Minato and Hiruzen could fall under that tier of power with Madara and the like, you have to account for the fact that Kishi's art and thoughts have changed over the years, do you think if Madara was fighting around when the Chuunin exam happened, that it would be anything like today?
No, the power was scaled on an entirely different level, it doesn't mean the dead characters all magically got stronger per say, it means their power is displayed differently.
Last edited by Xiraiya; December 29, 2012 at 05:31 AM.
You lost your entire credibility when you have said this, why do you still bother?Quote:
Hishirama is in fact capable of stopping Madara (it doesn't mean he is stronger now but he is capable of stopping him). From Madara's own words, you should understand that.
"I told you already, only Hashirama is capable of stopping me". http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...89-page-7.html
Irrespective of what the fanbase says, they cannot deny what Madara said. You cannot speak for the man who witnessed Hishirama's very power. There must be a reason why he said what he said & whether you want to accept it or not, it doesn't change the fact.
It's also quite funny that Kishi places Minato & Sarutobi above Hishirama. We have no feats suggesting such (& frankly we don't need those silly feats) but he repeatedly made it clear that those two were above Hishirama. Unless Kishi says otherwise, don't oppose his words.
But does it OK for someone to say that minato is a bug compared to madara? Has he lost his credibility too?
It's OK for someone to say that minato is freaking useless to any of the uchiha, especially to sasuke? Has they lost their credibility too?
It's OK for someone to say that minato is a fodder to itachi? Does they lost their credibility too?
If not, then saying that I lost my credibility when I said that madara is a fodder compared to hashirama is somehow a biased argument.
Madara used the kyubi to fight hashirama? Why? Because his power isn't enough to defeat hashirama.
Madara is just lucky on why he's still alive. While hashirama, after that fight was still alright.
Madara hiding on the cave for how many years? Even though hashirama is already dead.
Madara gained that rinnegan and yet he was so fond to used hashirama's jutsus, why? Because he remembered how those jutsu bitchslapped him.
The way ha hailed hashirama's name, and the way he remembering the old times together with hashirama is kinda odd. He was no doubt jealous on hashirama's power/caliber.
And lastly, the way kabuto defined hashirama's power as a myth like the rikudou is enough for me to say that their power level, even now, aren't comparable. It's just my opinion. Nothing more.
That ''fodder''was specifically counter to someone's post for saying that minato is a bug. Because for God's sake, minato and hashirama are the only one who can kill madara. Not itachi and there's no way in hell that t'was sasuke.
A bug who can kill madara in an instant isnt a useless bug at all. If that bug can't really fight madara head on, then he can seal him in an instant. End of game. Thus the bug is useless? I doubt that.
Last edited by KingOfNight; December 29, 2012 at 07:41 AM.