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Thread: Explaining Yhwach ability

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fox666's Avatar
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    Explaining Yhwach ability



    Yhwach was born with the innate ability to distribute his soul and fill the void within the soul of other individuals. The individuals will have their power increased, but that piece of soul may return to Yhwach. The process is lethal to these individuals, and their innate or learned talents are absorbed by Yhwach.

    "The sealed king of the Quincies will regain his pulse after 900 years..."



    With his eyes open, Yhwach can see the future?

    "...regain his intellect after 90 years..."



    With two irises on his eyes, Yhwach is capable of not just seeing the future, but understanding what he sees. With this, Yhwach can render his opponents power useless.

    This was used against Ichibei to neutralize his Bankai special ability. Yhwach's name returned to what it was before.

    "...and regain his power after 9 years."



    With three irises, Yhwach does not just understand his opponent's power, but can make it his own.

    Yhwach used the black that Ichibei consumed to make his body explode from the inside.
    Last edited by Fox666; January 12, 2015 at 09:10 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by IChallengeYou! View Post
    TOBI IS OBITO

    did you say something about timelines?! naruto ate it NOM NOM NOM IT'S GONE.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member jiraiyanindo's Avatar
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    Re: Explaining Yhwach ability

    Nice start but what about the rest of his powers?

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Explaining Yhwach ability

    Ok thanks for this thread tying Ywach powers together to help some of us who are lost understand better...
    I'll be abrupt and be the first to say I don't like Ywach character design it's retarded...

    As you Mentioned, Ywach pupil allows him to see the future, understand what he sees, and apperently make that power his own..

    Seriously to all Bleach fans and manga fans alike...If you can see the future and understand what you see, through extra pupil power or whatever...How The Hell do you make somebody's powers yours with your eyes?!? Like WTF does Kubo be thinking? Does Ywach have A fricking Sharingan??

    BS like this make me upset when I read Bleach cause it make me upset for it lack of coherent explanations.,.Exqctly how does Ywach counter ppl?? Magically Blitzing & overpowering them?? How does he make his opponent powers his?? Because he says so and magically uses his opponenets power against him?? Bleach Fighting mechanics or laws are broken

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Explaining Yhwach ability

    Bleach is a fictional story, so, I have no idea why we should expect an explanation to the mechanics of a purely supernatural abilty. This complaint would encompass the entirety of Bleach, thus, you should simply not read Bleach at all, if you are expecting realistic explanations to be given.

    Back to topic, with making a power his own theme considered, maybe the Bankai stealing medallions were devices that were put together via fragments of his soul. Now, that'd be an interesting tweak. And we already know that medallions did not apply to hollowfied souls. So, that'd leave Bach vulnerable against Ichigo, were they to fight one on one.
    Last edited by Hakuteiken; January 09, 2015 at 04:39 PM. Reason: Seems like I made some copy paste sweetness

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member eefrit's Avatar
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    Re: Explaining Yhwach ability

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Seriously to all Bleach fans and manga fans alike...If you can see the future and understand what you see, through extra pupil power or whatever...How The Hell do you make somebody's powers yours with your eyes?!? Like WTF does Kubo be thinking? Does Ywach have A fricking Sharingan??

    BS like this make me upset when I read Bleach cause it make me upset for it lack of coherent explanations.,.Exqctly how does Ywach counter ppl?? Magically Blitzing & overpowering them?? How does he make his opponent powers his?? Because he says so and magically uses his opponenets power against him?? Bleach Fighting mechanics or laws are broken
    The main ability of a Quincy is to manipulate Reishi. It could be simply taking what he learned using his Almighty and applying it to Reishi, allowing him to mimic the Reishi to the smallest of details. He never said their powers would be his, rather, they would become his allies. Just as say, the building in S.S. became Uryu's allies when he was using Letz Stil against Mayuri.

    Bleach's fight mechanics and laws aren't broken in this instance. Kubo can get away with this solely because he has revealed next to nothing about Ywach and what he can do. A lack of coherent explanations can be a fault in the series, but, in this case, there is a reason. Whether or not you like the reason is another thing entirely. Bleach is all about the Rule of Cool anyhow, so logic isn't a necessity in fights.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Explaining Yhwach ability

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    Bleach is a fictional story, so, I have no idea why we should expect an explanation to the mechanics of a purely supernatural abilty. This complaint would encompass the entirety of Bleach, thus, you should simply not read Bleach at all, if you are expecting realistic explanations to be given.

    Back to topic, with making a power his own theme considered, maybe the Bankai stealing medallions were devices that were put together via fragments of his soul. Now, that'd be an interesting tweak. And we already know that medallions did not apply to hollowfied souls. So, that'd leave Bach vulnerable against Ichigo, were they to fight one on one.
    Majority of stories are fictional...But if SuperMan shoots a whirlwind out his eyes or Froddo baggins starts flying around the Consumer is suppose to accept that and say " meh the story is fictional"? Dnt insult my intelligence, and have more pride in yours Kubo pulls a lot BS with Bleach and Ywach seems to be the biggest Yet.

    How can an action manga not have certain mechanics to built their foundation on to set it own unique universe? Kubo keeps breaking or conveniently ignores Bleach previous Set rules or laws.....The only real law is bleach is More is better or more is mightier...Then he breaks from this goes to technical powers Kidou,Rule zone Shikia/bankai to yet again revert back to more reitasu the merrier.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Explaining Yhwach ability

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Majority of stories are fictional...But if SuperMan shoots a whirlwind out his eyes or Froddo baggins starts flying around the Consumer is suppose to accept that and say " meh the story is fictional"? Dnt insult my intelligence, and have more pride in yours Kubo pulls a lot BS with Bleach and Ywach seems to be the biggest Yet.

    How can an action manga not have certain mechanics to built their foundation on to set it own unique universe? Kubo keeps breaking or conveniently ignores Bleach previous Set rules or laws.....The only real law is bleach is More is better or more is mightier...Then he breaks from this goes to technical powers Kidou,Rule zone Shikia/bankai to yet again revert back to more reitasu the merrier.
    And that's exactly why I advised you to not read Bleach at all. Bleach has never been a story about laying down fundamentals for the powers introduced. Not to mention, I don't see that as a realistic expectation, either, since there are way too many characters. This is not a one man show like Superman. There are way too mechanics to go into if that's the route you take and Kubo never did.
    I'm not insulting your or anyone else's intelligence. Though, if I may speak my mind here, I'm not the type of person who finds pride in reading stories and going through elaborate criticisms in the first place.

    I can't really agree with BS part, since your initial argument is restricted to calling stuff BS without an explanation on your part. Since Kubo isn't obliged to explain matters in his own story and you think of this approach as BS, surely you must have already come up with elaborate assessments about the topic at hand.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Bleach Re: Explaining Yhwach ability

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    And that's exactly why I advised you to not read Bleach at all. Bleach has never been a story about laying down fundamentals for the powers introduced. Not to mention, I don't see that as a realistic expectation, either, since there are way too many characters. This is not a one man show like Superman. There are way too mechanics to go into if that's the route you take and Kubo never did.
    I'm not insulting your or anyone else's intelligence. Though, if I may speak my mind here, I'm not the type of person who finds pride in reading stories and going through elaborate criticisms in the first place.

    I can't really agree with BS part, since your initial argument is restricted to calling stuff BS without an explanation on your part. Since Kubo isn't obliged to explain matters in his own story and you think of this approach as BS, surely you must have already come up with elaborate assessments about the topic at hand.
    I've been reading bleach way back since The end of Ichigo vs Byakuya on Sokoyou Hill, puttin in so much time to read Kubo's story I want to see it's Finale and how the story completes. Yes Bleach has laid down fundamentals in the beginning but have uprooted,erased or ignored them to lazy convenience..Hitsugaya's zanpoktou is explained, Yamamoto's zanpoktou is explained...Etc etc

    You don't pride yourself in reading stories thats Kool never do I. However I have pride in my Intellegence and I can analyze any genre of literature and crtique it without Bias. Bleach is a work of literature and like all literature that gains popularity or a strong following it will be critiqued and judge to say just how good it really is it...or was

    So if you can't see fault In inconsistency or Major PIS Thats up to you to Like an favor foolish stories...I'll always hold Authors to a standard give them credit when it's due and critique their writing when I feel like they discredited themselves.

    Bleach I love it but Like Naruto its ending on a weak and non sensible note.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Explaining Yhwach ability

    Well, elemental based stuff is surely way easier to explain. If we tie your post to the topic at hand, Bach's ability is completely out of such boundaries. To know the fundamental and full extent of his powers, we would need a much more detailed background story for Bach, unlike the one single chapter that talked about how he was born, revered and came to gain senses throughout his lifespan, before distributing his own soul.
    That was, actually, a part that I wasn't particularly happy about, but it was more about the character base, rather than the abilities or whatnot, and my opinion remains unchanged.

    Now, returning completely to the topic would be good. I think Bach's ability is possibly related to how he can control the Blut for his fellow Quincy. It's not simply distributing a fragment of his soul anymore. There is a chance that he can mess up with someone's body that way. Similar to Askin's power, but way more intricate, and that'd actually allow him to blow up Ichibei out of blue.
    Maybe "understanding" someone's power is simply backtracking the flow of reiatsu while the technique is used, just to map the person's body and "alter" the flow altogether, as he can do with the Quincy.
    A rather far-fetched look, but currently, anything and everything sounds plausible enough for me to put out.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fox666's Avatar
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    Re: Explaining Yhwach ability

    You are trying to logically explain how it's possible to have an ability that's based on conditions. Yhwach ability is akin to Kyoraku, Gremmy or Askin. They have crazy abilities that don't follow any law except their own.

    That's Togashi influence I guess. Kubo took many elementos from Yu Yu Hakusho.
    Last edited by Fox666; January 11, 2015 at 05:12 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by IChallengeYou! View Post
    TOBI IS OBITO

    did you say something about timelines?! naruto ate it NOM NOM NOM IT'S GONE.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NoOneInParticular's Avatar
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    Re: Explaining Yhwach ability

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Ok thanks for this thread tying Ywach powers together to help some of us who are lost understand better...
    I'll be abrupt and be the first to say I don't like Ywach character design it's retarded...

    As you Mentioned, Ywach pupil allows him to see the future, understand what he sees, and apperently make that power his own..

    Seriously to all Bleach fans and manga fans alike...If you can see the future and understand what you see, through extra pupil power or whatever...How The Hell do you make somebody's powers yours with your eyes?!? Like WTF does Kubo be thinking? Does Ywach have A fricking Sharingan??

    BS like this make me upset when I read Bleach cause it make me upset for it lack of coherent explanations.,.Exqctly how does Ywach counter ppl?? Magically Blitzing & overpowering them?? How does he make his opponent powers his?? Because he says so and magically uses his opponenets power against him?? Bleach Fighting mechanics or laws are broken
    Got to be honest, I don't see how Yhwach's powers are that out of line with the Bleachverse. The way Exodi put it is exactly how I interpreted it too - Yhwach is basically the ultimate Quincy, who can manipulate reishi at will and even souls to a degree. By seeing any power in action, he's able to understand the mechanics of it and then use his own control over all things reishi-related to create the opposite effect of whatever the power was. Being able to see the future makes him able to understand the power before it's even been used.

    When it comes to Bleach's mechanics and laws, the thing is the Quincy have been shown to have a lot more to them than was implied with their introduction. At first they were a bunch of humans who could compress reishi into bows and arrows, now we see they're a race somehow descended from some kind of vampire-like demigod who can do things like summon meteorites out of thin air and create an entire dimension inside shadows. My point is that Yhwach can have ridiculous powers because he's not like any other being we've seen in the manga so far.
    Last edited by NoOneInParticular; January 12, 2015 at 08:25 AM.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Explaining Yhwach ability

    Virtually no manga presents a realistic explanation at the mechanics of how their powers work. Its not really possible IMO either and the situation of powers is fundamentally supernatural. In naruto chakra is a combination of spiritual and physical energy. Its an explanation but not only it does not make sense but it rather makes brings up more questions. HXH does not explain that either, nen is simply energy the users have. The author does reserve kudos for explaining how to train for it with such detail although at the core it is not significantly different from the naruto situation. Bleach works that way too, reiatsu is simply power the users have. Zampakuto exist within the user for whatever reason and are brought forth by asauchi. Nanatsu no taizai is basically the same as bleach as far as I can tell safe for some minor differences.

    The issue with juhabach's ability should not be the science behind it but rather its scope, capacity and limitations which so far remain incredibly ambigous as it seems juhabach has simply too many innate powers. Spreading his soul and the affiliated abilties, stealing powers, seeing the future and ambiguous immunity to attacks... Its too much.

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    Re: Explaining Yhwach ability

    Quote Originally Posted by XXGenesis View Post
    Ok thanks for this thread tying Ywach powers together to help some of us who are lost understand better...
    I'll be abrupt and be the first to say I don't like Ywach character design it's retarded...

    As you Mentioned, Ywach pupil allows him to see the future, understand what he sees, and apperently make that power his own..

    Seriously to all Bleach fans and manga fans alike...If you can see the future and understand what you see, through extra pupil power or whatever...How The Hell do you make somebody's powers yours with your eyes?!? Like WTF does Kubo be thinking? Does Ywach have A fricking Sharingan??

    BS like this make me upset when I read Bleach cause it make me upset for it lack of coherent explanations.,.Exqctly how does Ywach counter ppl?? Magically Blitzing & overpowering them?? How does he make his opponent powers his?? Because he says so and magically uses his opponenets power against him?? Bleach Fighting mechanics or laws are broken
    I totally second this. What it all boils down to is that Kubo is getting lazy.

    I completely disagree with the idea that Yhwach's 3rd pupil "absorbes/acquires" his opponents powers. When Ichibe was explaining the technique he was using with his bankai he stated that it was creating an eternal prison of darkness. After which point the black building was constructed, Yhwach clenched his fist and Ichibe exploded and the ink building disappeared -- probably because all that was left of him was his head and feet.

    Also, when his powers are being described at the beginning he uses auswahlen to redistribute/absorb the power that he has effectively given to the quincies, nabbing a little bit for himself too. Due to the fact that quincies and shinigami are the equivalent of black and white -- how could he be just taking powers of shinigami on a whim? One can only assume that their extremely shortlived "bankai theif" technique was some time in the making and then Urahara just nullified it in the "poof - done" kind of sense, conveniently right after Yamamoto died...

    Tangent-wise, Yhwach impaled the Soul King -- according to Ichibe everything should be gone now, right? Then if you digress a little bit where Ukitake initiates Kamikane and Kyoraku goes to the central 46 -- what's going on there? AIZEN! We very firmly know that Aizen hates the Soul King, but Yhwach offered Aizen a position in his ranks to ultimately kill the Soul King and Aizen didn't even give him the time of day, suggesting that Aizen hates the quincies a lot more than he hates the Soul King.

    I don't think Yhwach's eyes have power that supersedes Kyoka Suigetsu and that Yhwach is currently under the influence of Kyoka Suigetsu -- maybe. The side I am almost entirely sure about is that Kyoraku is going to get Aizen and let him free to join the fight. We already know that Ichigo and Ukitake have the power to take him down again so he's not really a threat to the Shinigami anymore. In my opinion that kind of makes sense... Thoughts?

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    Re: Explaining Yhwach ability

    Well, there are certainly many aspects to juhabach's ability. One is the seeing the future. As far as absorbing power goes he attempted that on ichibei.
    http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/608/14

    And it seems like now that his ability is awake he can do even more than that. Maybe he does have some extent of reality warping power as only knowing the future should not be quite enough to do what he did against ichibei. We need more explanations. And just knowing the future should not explain his selection or ability to spread his soul.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NoOneInParticular's Avatar
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    Re: Explaining Yhwach ability

    I don't see how KS could work on Yhwach, simply because seeing the future would enable him to foresee the moment the illusion ends before it happens, so he'd already be aware that what he's seeing isn't real.

    Something I've been wondering is how his foresight works. Does he see things exactly as they'll happen, or is it that he can see what'll happen and then act to change things in his favour. e.g. If he sees himself being hit with an attack can he then prevent it from happening, or is the future set and he has no control over it? I guess it's not something anyone can answer yet, but I'm curious. Because if the SK has the same ability, it evidently didn't help him save himself (although he's not dead yet so we'll have to see how that turns out).
    Last edited by NoOneInParticular; January 24, 2015 at 08:32 AM.

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