a few questions
-do you think -kun -san -chan and so on should be left in the translation?
-how would you translate a nii-chan referred to a random (not a member of the family) young person?
-痴漢か?! how would you translate this? (it is said by a person glomped by a passer by, who knew him)
thank you in advance!
Last edited by sparviero-92; October 25, 2010 at 05:25 PM.
1. Yes, absolutely
3. You're a pervert? --might be other options here, but this one's generic and fits in most cases.
1. No. If I'm the person who starts translating something from the first chapter onwards, I don't leave them in. I don't like it when they're left in.
2. Depends. I'd either use the name (if known) or something like "young man".
3. You a criminal!?
There are a couple of types of readers I think: <Type A> the type who appreciates the original work/manga. Advanced and otaku readers and fans probably belong to this type. They may also like the background SFX in Japanese <Type B> the type who just wants to enjoy the storyline in their own language. Also young readers may be this type. If the target readers are the Type A, I would definitely go with crertb. -san, -kun, -chan, -sama can be used to call the same person depends on the callers and situation. By leaving the -san, -kun etc, the reader can enjoy the nuance in the original work. Also check how other titles by the same author are translated.
(2) I tend to go with Kasu. "Young man" would work just fine to me. I do not have a problem with crertb but you may need to add a note what Nii-san means somewhere. Just be consistent when you translate similar words such as neesan, ojisan, ojiisan, obasan, obaasan, dannasan, okusan, botchan and ojoosan.
(3) Absolutely use the word "pervert." Please note that "痴漢(CHIKAN)" does not mean "criminal."
Last edited by mikkih; October 28, 2010 at 09:56 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
1. Depend...If you think you can deal with the context of that honorifics just fine without having to keep those things, then sure, trash them. If not or the translator is just being plain lazy, then fine, leave them in. .-.
2. Have to ask you back one thing...Do people actually call any "young person" nii-chan, though? I mean, I thought it's more about the estimated gap between the age of the speaker and the listener, more than exact pinpointing on specific age. (It'd be real creepy to see an old man calling a "young man" "niichan", for example. Seriously sounds gross...-_-")
Either way, it depends on context. Young man would work. Replacing it with the real name would work. Other ones, like bros or dude or other stuff may also work (if the speakers are gangster picking fight with some guy, for example). Since you just say "random person", it's kinda hard to pinpoint down specifically. Just think of look at the context of which that word is used in, and think to yourself which word would probably fit best in it. .-.
3. Well, wouldn't molest be consider as a crime though? Since from what I've heard, Japanese do consider it as some kind of crime...>_>"
But..."Molest!?"...or certainly, "Pervert!?" would be how I translate it...
Ju-da-su, you are funny as usual.
Just for your reference...
<An example of the usage of Nii-chan spoken by an older person>
An older man at a fish shop tries to sell fish and calls a young man.
3. The formula is chikan<criminal, not chikan=criminal.
1. Imo, leave them in enough for people to get an idea of the characters' relationship. Beyond that, it starts to sound grating and unnatural E.g., in the latest Gantz, Natsu calls her boyfriend "Ryou-chan" about four times in two pages. I left one in for context, but after that I think people get the picture.
Though in some cases, it becomes a character's trademark. Like Sakura's "Sasuke-kun" or "Ta-kun" in FLCL. I think those are important to keep. (they even say Ta-kun in the FLCL dub).
Ooh, this could turn into a heated argument. XD
Anyway, the most important factor in deciding whether to use honorifics is your personal preference. This isn't a job, so what you say goes. Your group can try to argue, but in 99% of the cases the translator wins. Now, if you really don't know or don't care, I would say go with the honorifics. Most readers are used to them, understand them, and like them. If you care about the minority of readers who don't, you can add footnotes. It adds a lot of cultural flavor too. Most people like that. Those who don't are weird, they probably wouldn't mind if all characters were renamed into "John" and "Jennifer" too. What's the freaking point of reading foreign works of literature if you are afraid of being immersed in that culture?
Similar idea with "nii-chan". First, I have to point out that "young man" in English can only be used when it's someone older speaking to someone much younger. In all other cases, you can't tl "nii-chan" like that. One of the reasons to keep it nii-chan and add a footnote.
In general, before I even started learning Japanese, I loved those cultural notes from considerate translators. It really taught me a lot about the Japanese society. Be like those awesome translators. XD
Well, I personally agree with "it depends".
1. The fisherman case of mikkih: I will probably use"hey boy/lad/young guy(or man)"...but never will i use nii-chan on this case, it will be just creepy... On the other hand, like in the case of a younger sister calling her brother or an older guy, I tend to use nii-chan since using "chan" emphasizes the feminist way of the girl...
2.痴漢, i will sometimes use "pervert" but sometimes, depend on the case, you can replace it by "hentai", your readers understand it well, worry not.
The usage of Nii-chan in discussion is defined by the original post.Quote:Please note "hey boy" will not work to translate my example since "Nii-chan" figure is not a child. If it were a child, the speaker would use "Onii-chan", "Boku" or other similar words, and the following speech would not be as rough. (Eg. ぼく、お母さんのお手伝いかい？えらいねぇ。Boku, okaasan no otetsudai kai? Erainee. What a boy. Are you helping your mom today?) What I had in mind in my previous post was an older man (40+ yr) speaking to the young (high schooler).Quote:
Since it's weekend, I have time to list a few more.Quote:
Example of speakers who might use the word word Nii-chan (non-blood related) are:
1) A young child(A) calling a young man(B). A is younger than B. A(B) is 2-3rd grader at the most and B needs to be young enough, say 18 or less. A girl would use おにいちゃん instead of にいちゃん
Eg. A boy says: にいちゃん,名前（ナマエ）は？What's your name?
The boy's mother says: おにいさん、お名前はでしょ？Why don't you say it more politely?
2) Older sellers at local fish or vegetable shops. The seller is middle aged and older. Shops are open (not in a building) and all the products are displayed outside. The seller is lively and may be the Renji (in Bleach) type.
3) A middle aged guy in a suit on the way home from work stops by a convenience store and asks a worker (young man) behind the register.
Eg. にいちゃん、悪(ワル)いけど後（ウシロ）ろのタバコとってくれないかなぁ。 Won't you get me a pack of cigarettes behind you?
4) A guy,who can be young, with a big attitude tries to pick a fight. The victim can be a high schooler or up to 20 or so, but the speaker is older than the other.
にいちゃん、ちょっと面（ツラ）かせや。Hey you, come over a sec.
Have a good weekend, everyone. gtg
Last edited by mikkih; October 30, 2010 at 09:51 PM. Reason: added ぼく、お母さんのお手伝いかい？