tsunade after she dies/team dan & jiraya.
Nagato? The equivalent of Obito going crazy over Rin would have been if Nagato decided to become Pain because his puppy named Chibi was killed. Remember when the spoilers were released about that chapter? Many thought Kishi was actually going to use the dog's death as the catalyst for Nagato. But he thankfully didn't and Nagato was going to suffer a lot more. It was just another crack in the wall for Nagato that would break open with Yahiko's death. Not the main cause.
I am not saying either were worthy of Shakespeare. But compared to Obito's back story, they were certainly more believable for the audience.
Let's say Rin and Obito were in love and this was shown in the manga. Perhaps...I say perhaps Obito's complete breakdown over Rin's death would have been more plausible given he lost a love, who was an important person in his life, and not simply a crush. Maybe I could buy Obito's breakdown to a point. But with the way the story was written there is a disconnect over Rin's death and Obito's reaction. There is something missing. If Madara was using genjutsu on him at least that would have been a better reason
We could see Sasuke and Nagato's reasons for madness. Both happened over years. But Obito's reasons make him come off as a spoiled brat who didn't get what he wanted(a girl he liked) so now the entire world must suffer for it. So he can selfishly live out a genjutsu fantasy with someone who never loved him. Talk about sexual entitlement. How ironic that he claims to care for Rin and yet her feelings never enter into the equation? It is only about what Obito wants. How on earth is that a compelling villain? He was just a pathetic loser. No one should ever compare Naruto to this guy.
Villains can be scary, powerful, violent, disgusting, insane, underhanded, corrupt, diabolic, humorous, charming, etc. We expect that of them. They are meant to be hated, but in an entertaining way. But the one thing they cannot do is ever become annoying. And that is what Obito's flashback made him.
Kishi is writing a fantasy manga where people use magic and can jump 50 feet in the air. But he also wants his manga grounded in real emotions. And that didn't happen with Obito.
Just a classic boy/girl relationship between two characters who seem perfect for each other and have no drama to keep them apart. Other than their own stubbornness. See Asuma and Kurenai. It can be done in three panels near the end of the manga.
Last edited by Jessie; November 06, 2012 at 10:51 AM.
Sasuke went through 1 tragedy while Nagato went through 2. That's not more than Obito went through. Both Sasuke and Nagato forsaked their beleifs systems to pursue their revenge. Sasuke believed that he could have remained in Konoha with Naruto and Sakura and be part fo the system, he then decided to cut those bonds to pursue a different course of action. Nagato did a complete 180, he became the antagonist of the "Tales of the Gutsy Ninja" without realizing it. The protagonist was based on the original Nagato. So both Sasuke and Nagato abandoned their ways to pursue their revenge. So why can't Obito do it for romantic love?Originally Posted by Rikudou King
Well is that any better than finding out Tobi is Obito but not finding out the reason why for another 200 chapters? Doesn't serve a purpose really. You just replace the unanswered question "who is Obito" with "why did Obito" for 200 chapters. It doesn't get you anywhere until Kishi decides to explain things.Quote:
Well Shikamaru is a pimp ( and Kishi did say that he would go for him, should he be a girl ) so its normal, but my point was that the majority was ok with Shikamaru and Temari without arguing about it.
And we all know Ino will go with Chouji, she knows his biggest advantage
---------- Post added at 10:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 AM ----------
I like the puppy love analogy, but once again the issue is development. Nagato was stretched over several chapters with Jiraiya and Naruto arcs. Obito was a side character in how Kakashi got his sharingan, the focus of the arc was not the foundation for the next 20 years of the Naruto world. Let's be real, you can't make a sympathetic villian in 3 chapters and this is manga not a mystery novel, where the author can leave hints throughout the work and then tie them all together at the end. So while the development is lacking that doesn't mean the Obito's motive is illegitimate. Kishi has been laying themes for revenge and the cycle of hate since the beginning. Hes uses familial and comradric ties to become agents of revenge, using love is just filling out the menu.
You're right, cheesy high school romances are more inane and frivolous than hitting the world reset button. However, even if the scenario is unpalletable there is a pathway for believability. So is it Obito's immaturity that's too hard to swallow? If this happened when they were 20 would that be ok? Is it the fact that Obito's pretty one-dimensional and wasn't wrung through a angst-ridden phase while trapped with Madara before seeing Rin's death, or having a self-loathing phase before he lost his moral center, or is it that's his love is unrequitted?Quote:
Yes, Sasuke and Nagato had their angst-ridden moments before they finally went bad, but Obito doesn't have to follow the same path to become a vilian. You can have 1 traumatic moment that changes you forever, and not have your moral compass waivering between both ends of the continuum for a period of years.
You forgot one very important characteristic of villans. Pity. Obito and other villans have shown many of those characteristics that were listed, but you wind up pitying them as well. You pity Sasuke for not recognizing all the efforts his friends try to do to bring him back. You pity Nagato for becoming the opposite of his true goals in life. You can pity Obito for not being able to deal with the sorrow that was inflicted on him and having the courage to accept what happens to you instead of running to the reset button.
And the reason it doesn't measure up is simply because the feeling of a boyhood crush aren't very comparable to the feeling of love for family. Had Obito and Rin been closer, then perhaps, but a one-sided connection isn't all that deep.
As for Nagato, yeah he still had Konan and Akatsuki but essentially he only had two "siblings" left and one died in front of him. That combined with his parents dying in front of him (i think), his war torn country, not knowing if he was going to live one day or die another because he was either starving or crossing over a battlefield; yeah he has every right to want peace by any means necessary. But that's how Kishi wrote both Nagato's and Sasuke's character. Sadly he didn't do the same for Obito. LOL on a side note God only knows what Nagato would have done if Konan died.
I mean all it might have taken in the Kakashi gaiden was for Rin to tell Obito she loves him before he sacrificed himself or upon his deathbed, him dying in her arms, or even a nod of approval that we could analyze as, "Go get him tiger, I love you!" . Who knows maybe it would take one chapter, one page, or one panel, but in the end we got nothing of the sort to go with. We literally only have a one sided crush that was inferred. So IMO it seems way more on the crazy/stalker side (crazy being the key word) then the avenging/justified side.
Last edited by Bajan4eva1; November 06, 2012 at 04:36 PM.
I find shipping Shikamaru with a dead girl (Tayuya) a bit more extreme than shipping it with his master's lover which he swear to take care of (her and her child).
Sure, she's older than him, but in the long term, that doesn't matter much.
Still, I agree.
Pretty much everyone prefers ShikamaruXTemari.
And I'm also a big fan of ChojiXIno.
(And for that reason, I hate the SaiXIno pairing!)
Even though yes, its pretty sick
Dunno, I'd believe he's would betray Asuma if he gets together with his wife, you know?
Like Kakashi doing the hanky panky with Kushina, should she survived.
Well I doubt Sai will end with a girl, imho he plays for the same team
Why is Shikamaru x Tayuya sick? It's not pairing him with the actual dead body, merely a "what could have been" type thing.
But I got the feeling we were more talking about who could end up with whom in the end.
Obviously, the Shikamaru/Tayuya pairing can no longer happen.
PS: Makes me think...
Shikamaru really do always end up fighting girls...
With the exception of Hidan, he pretty much only fought girl... Kin, Temari, Tayuya...
That's probably why he gets so many pairings!
I just can't... I can't deal with this. I just don't...
I do want Naruto to end up with Hinata, though. Too bad it may not happen. :\