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I would disagree about Karin having character development. Yes, she got stabbed by Sasuke but that's an action-not character development. She then proceeds to disavow any dealing with Sasuke, however, you see her fighting with herself in jail over her feelings for Sauske. Your disgust over Karin reverting is about 20 chapters too late. This woman has no free will, she's a very shallow character so the moment you saw Karin giving a roundhouse kick to Suigetsu's face she had already caved-in to her feeelings and forgiven Sasuke.Quote:
Jyuugo is a guy who's more St. Francis than ninja and Suigetsu is nothing more than the team buffoon. They're back to their orginal positions and the team is ready to head out again. All the telltale signs for the band getting back together were there, and Kishi follows through on items that he hints at. So Karin was going back the only unresolved point was the method of her return. You could have Karin agonizing over it for a few more minutes or have Sasuke give a more elegant apology than he did, but in the end it doesn't amount to much and just wastes panels.Quote:
I've come to accept that Kishi isn't a great story teller, or rather, he was unable to continue telling his original Naruto story in a good way. It will be interesting to see how his new manga pans out because frankly I have low expectations.
---------- Post added at 03:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:14 PM ----------
Granted, Kishi can't delve too deep in 15-17 pages a week, but his story telling ability has diminished almost completely. His characters are bi-polar messes who can't stay on track from chapter to chapter, never mind volume to volume.
And he's don't some pretty bad things before. This is the third time he has turned back the clock with a female character's development. (Hinata after the Pain invasion, Sakura at the end of the Kage summit, and now this Karin atrocity)
With all the time Kishimoto has wasted on incredibly stupid and pointless side-plots (Motoi and Killer B jumps to mind) I completely reject the idea that he couldn't be bothered to fulfill a basic need of doing what he needs to in order for his character's individual motivations to make sense.
The thing that makes it so hard for me to accept that Kishimoto is just a bad writer is that he did what I consider good writing for so long. Part 1's narrative was really good and I would argue that the first few arcs of Part 2 were even better. I just can't understand how the writer who wrote that also wrote this. How can the same guy make the kind of mistakes I've rarely seen outside of indie books from the kindle store?
Last edited by Jammin; April 20, 2013 at 04:09 PM.
Part 2 for me was mostly good up until the Nagato's change of face. At that point, to me, the manga has been nothing but fan service and shit with just enough good points to keep me reading it.
Honestly, I think something that people don't realize is that while Kishi's story has suffered, his art has grown tremendously. It could be that since he has to focus more on drawing everything that his story is suffering.
IMO, to me, some of the best Arcs still lie in Part 2, mainly the Immortals Arc and Jiraiya's Death. But IMO, I don't think Kishi ever quite recaptured the emotions and gravitas he did with the Wave Country Arc. The whole notion that shinobi are tools, the idea that those who leave their comrades are trash, all came from that arc. The great reveal of the Sharigan, Rakiri, and the power of the Kyuubi, all in one arc. And finally, of course, this is what truly kick started Naruto and Sasuke's relationship. We had Sasuke laying down his life for Naruto, possibly even dying to protect him. I could go on and on about this arc and how it hooked me. If anything, I wish Kishi would redraw it to really cement it in stone.
Kishi's art has grown amazingly, I saw a panel from part 1 when Tsunada was battling Kabuto and it just seemed so bad compared to the quality we are used to now.
Story went downhill for me after the kage summit arc, using the whole ET to bring in many favourite characters was a cheap move and made the manga too slow for me.
How was Hinata reset? She's the only girl going foward, if albeit slowly. Sakura was the old Sakura 10 chapters after Sasori died, by the time the Summot Arc started she was already ni form, no reversion. Karin was still Karin she went nowhere so there was nowhere to revert from.Quote:
Well, frankly, that's asking too much. Sasuke has never been a touchy-feely guy. For him to offer more than 3 syllables in any thoughful statement is too much. The pendulum on Sasuke is finally pulling away from raving lunatic to thoughtful individual again. For him to give a lengthy apology would be even a bigger trangression. Karin's return to the creepy, infatuated girl is a tad sad, however, Karin was a desperate, creepy girl to begin with. It's not catastrophic like Sasuke getting all mushy and offering speeches of apology to any girl he rejected. For a guy who spent his time cutting the bonds with everyone he knew to come rushing back is disasterous. It's still too early for that.Quote:
Well plotlines and character development don't need to go hand in hand. Part 1 was heavy on character development buy light on plot, Part two is the opposite. You want Kishi to delve into character development since you don't like the plot just chapters away from the final battles? Not gonna happen, that time has come to pass.Quote:
She went from....
A ---> B ---> A (only "A" was much more poorly written the second time around, IMO)
As for Sakura, in order to do something to piss me off Sakura would have to (by definition) do "something". Which would be a victory in and of itself.
As for how she reverted, to you remember the whole "I can't let Naruto handle everything by himself resolution" she made? You remember how that ended. With her saying "I'll believe in Naruto." in other words "Let him handle everything".
So she went from....
A ---> B ---> A
And, of course, in creating that before mentioned horrible subtext about Karin's character; in her apparent acceptance of his lack of regard for her life.
Expecting a plot go on without character development is like expecting a person go on after their heart stops beating. Best case you get a lifeless zombie. (HaHA double entendre!)
Last edited by Jammin; April 21, 2013 at 05:47 PM.
I dunno why, but everyone from Taka gave off the vibe that they were accessory characters. Filler characters that have no effect on the storyline at all.
Just like it's okay to not care what relationship the Ichiraku Ramen shop guy has with his daughter, it's okay that no one in Taka's motivations make sense, because they're inconsequential to the story. And for that alone I can't be bothered by anything out of the ordinary that they do. They're just there as an accessory to Sasuke. Maybe if we'd spent more time with her in the manga it'd matter. And maybe if we didn't already know she was a psycho.
Regarding Karin I have to say that I don't like what she did even if I must admit that it was really fun, especially for the expression that makes Sasuke when she rubs on him.
I figured that Karin would have forgiven him, but I was hoping that it would not be in this way, that it would be so fast, and in any case I was hoping that Karin would have remained more detached, that she would have not be so sticky.
Infact even if when she was showed us in this war (I don't remember in which chapter) she had a double personality, a side of her was violent when she was thinking to the time in which Sasuke stabbed her, but then when she saw Sasuke's photo she seemed that to be returned to be in love with him, I was hoping than that was all an act to distract the guards.
In any case I really want to see Sakura's reaction when she will see Karin clinging to Sasuke.
Anyways when Sakura will be informed of the truth regarding the extermination of the clan Uchiha, I believe she will go to help Sasuke, she will act as support for him just like recently Hinata did it for Naruto (I think that Hinata will assist Naruto even in the next chapters).
What I think will be really interesting is to see the relationship between Karin and Sakura, they could fight for Sasuke attention and perhaps they will fight each others (not in a real fight, they will only try to determinate who can help Sasuke in the better way).
Anyways even if it could be fun to see it, this would make it completely unrecoverable the character of Sakura (the best solution would be that Sakura will heal Sasuke, without bothering of Karin, while Karin would be jealously of Sakura).
What...What, what romance and society? OK Hold on, back up, alright, just back up, wait up, back, hold on, put on the brakes for a second, just back up!
Romance and Society??! In Naruto I'm reading?!?!
Other than Naruto opening a can of whoop-ass on someone every week and obnoxious dialogue, am I missing something here?
What is your opinion on these women? Are they also mentally insane for deliberately spending money and getting surgeries done to put their bodies at a disadvantage? I don't believe in brainwash unless it's not an ideal/school of thought such as religion or nationalism. In both the cases, it's only belief. An individual is not asked to mutilate their genitals or body parts to please people. It's an ideology. These women DO exist and make up a considerable portion. In some of them this factor is low, in other medium, and then there are your Karin types.
If you want to make a case that Kishimoto should have picked a 'liberated' personality type for some kind of lesson, then I am all for it. But I cannot simply agree with you when overwhelming evidence is against women in this regard.
---------- Post added April 22, 2013 at 12:15 AM ---------- Previous post was April 21, 2013 at 11:53 PM ----------
Last edited by shahdan; April 21, 2013 at 01:57 PM.
Mizukage interfered, that mush is a certainty. Any decently intelligent individual would guess that the interference can extend beyond the meeting room.