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I wonder how strong priscilla is, and how strong the ressurected #1's will be. In the manga the Org. members say that Alicia would be no match for the dragon kin, and that they needed AB's of Isleys stature. This leads me to believe that of the three abysals, Isley was the strongest, with Riful a close second and Luciela the weakest. Proof is that Isley and Riful both had nicknames while Luciela didn't. Also Riful was worried over Alicia's attacks but didn't seem anywhere near as worried as when she met Priscilla. Riful also seemed confidant that she could defeat alicia. My point is what exactly could kill Priscilla? Alicia's speed was greater than Rifuls and she was also fast enough to surprise Priscilla when she first cut her shoulder. However no attacks made against priscilla have done any lasting damage to her. Duff and Isley are the only ones in the manga to deal substantial damage to her and even then she regenerated in seconds. Clare makes a nice observation in that she believed that speed was the most important factor in killing priscilla, however Isley was as fast as Rigaldo, who was one of the quickest in terms of speed and Alicia who had super speed was killed in an instant. So what can kill priscilla? We know that clare is her awakened form is faster than Rigaldo by a generous factor. We also know that the destroyer+clare failed to do much damage to her. My theory is that since the destroyer drained yoki/life energy and that priscilla is currently in a compressed ball of the destroyer,that when priscilla finally emerges she be in a much weaker state. Miria will probably go head to head with priscilla and will do some damage but will eventually be defeated and then clare will go psychotic and semi awaken like she did in pieta and will set the stage for the big battle. Also another note, I think that the new male claymores that awakened were a plot introduction for raki. We know the org. has him and needs or wants more awakened. He will probably made into a claymore and awaken and clare will be forced to fight him.
your post made me jsut realize this...
Raki was indeed targeted by the NY: his parents, next his brother, than his uncle, and he was saved for last by the NY...
so, if we apply my theory, that the BCs select human candidates to become Claymores, and then use their NYs to make those child-candidates orphans so they can pick them up and turn them into Claymores.
so, it could be very well, that at least one of the BCs wanted Raki to become a Claymore...
Priscilla was/is the most powerful AO (Awakened One, an Awakened rank 1), a "SAO" (Super AO), with the only possible threat/rival to her in the Destroyer, forcing her to finally use her FULL POWER on it, destroying its towering TGoL shell/exeskeleton body, and subsequently destroying its black-soul huge tentacles while being controlled by Clare/Teresa-Destroyer. However, Clare/Teresa-Destroyer than managed to seal Priscilla up. Of course, Priscilla herself ONLY FEARS Teresa...
While the Destroyer (well Clare/Teresa-Destroyer) did manage to seal up Priscilla and forced Priscilla to use her FULL POWER upon it, at best, it is only equal to Priscilla. It couldn't defeat Priscilla, only seal her up. While Priscilla, despite all this, remained unconcerned about the Destroyer. This seems to suggest that Priscilla is probably more powerful than the Destroyer, but obviously she did get sealed up by it, as well.
So, in concluding analysis...
Priscilla ~/= Destroyer
Claymore Clare got toyed with and pwned by Priscilla, so she has a long ways to go, lol.
now Partially Awakened Clare is interesting as Yagi "cut it off", lol.
I written about this/explained this scene already, and I don't want to do so again.
(if any of you are interested in this who don't know yet what I've said about it, let me know, and I'll provide what I said about it)
there's some ranking threads, which is relevant to some of your posts' questions/topics, here:
1. Rank the Claymores
2. ~How powerful would the AOs be in their human forms?
but here's generally how'd I rank them:
Tier 1: Teresa
Tier 1.5: Priscilla
Tier 2: Destroyer
Tier 3: Rafaela
Tier 3.5: Isley, Riful, Luciela, Rosemary, Alicia, and Beth (they're too close to each other for me to rank to such detail as amongst them to one another)
Tier 4: Partially Awakened Clare
Tier 5: Clare and Deneve
Tier 5.5: Miria and Helen
Tier 6: Rigardo and Agatha
Tier 6.5: Dauf and Awakened Ophelia (and Irene would be at least here, if not higher in tier; more powerful)
Tier 7: Galatea, Miata, and Ophelia
Tier 8: Cynthia, Tabatha, and Yuma
Last edited by HegemonKhan; April 12, 2011 at 06:07 PM.
Oh, you meant for it not to become a typical shounen that always end up doing what DBZ, Bleach, etc. does and revive characters from impossible means...
But if you think about it, Claire should have died a long time ago...
But she kept getting upgrades...
it's fan-speculation on my part, but Rafaela's "feats" can't be ignored:
1A. Rubel tells us that Rafaela is as powerful as her older sister Luciela. Unfortunately, we don't know if he means Claymore Luciela or AO Luciela. At the very least, Rafaela is a rank 1, like Luciela was, or Rafaela can be even more powerful than AO Luciela!
1B. I do NOT accept that Luciela is the weakest of the 3 original AOs, the "Unholy Trinity" -hehe- (Isley, Riful, and Luciela), as she battled Isley to a draw, actually Isley was damaged and unable to chase after her (maybe even being slower then she is, and thus futile to chase after her, because if he was faster than Luciela or if he had enough yoki/energy left, then why would he not "run down" Luciela and kill her off?), whereas I don't think she was damaged by him at all (correct me if wrong), and Isley was as sapped/drained/exhausted of Yoki/energy as she was, if not more so...
2. Rafaela did not fear AO Luciela (nor Irene nor Clare+Jean), she could be sent to Assassinate anyone by Rubel, so she must have been that powerful.
Now, we don't know if Rafaela ever actually fought/engaged against Luciela when she Awakened at the Org HQs, maybe she did, or maybe she (and Luciela) didn't attack/fight each other. We don't know.
But, Rafaela sure had confidence going to Luciela after the Pieta Battle.
And, if Galatea speaks true, Rafaela (along with Renee) were spying on the Pieta Battle, unknown to everyone. What if Rafaela could have been sensed (she couldn't be due to her NYS status... but what about Renee?... hehe), so I'd say she must have been powerful enough to take on at least Rigardo, if not Isley as well... but not Priscilla... Rafaela's not that powerful... right?... gulp....
3. as has been mentioned above, Rafaela was "The Assassin of the Organization (well, Rubel's Assassin actually, hehe)", she was that powerful and had the NYS status as well, indeed making her the perfect "Assassin", to kill off who knows how many top ranked/powerful Claymores... that the "purify" "spiderman" male AB couldn't handle or nor hard enough missions to kill of them.
4. Rafaela partly resulted in the powerful Destroyer, so Rafaela must have been powerful herself.
5. Rafaela, even as an offensive type, could even Regenerate the difficult eyes (but she CHOSE not to Regenerate her damaged/missing eye).
6. Rafaela WAS a VERY POWERFUL YOKI USER!
A. Soul Link
B. Powerful Yoki Sensing
(she hunted down Irene and Clare+Jean easily, once Irene released her yoki to do her Quick Sword, and according to Galatea she had secretly spied on the Pieta Battle as well. Not to mention, that she immediately sensed/recognized Trainee Teresa's true Power Level, which NO ONE else could do...)
C. Mind Transfer (saving herself by putting herself/her mind inside of poor Clare's head/brain/mind)
D. She WAS able to challenge the Destroyer, despite saying that it was too powerful for her, breaking through, to warn and save Clare's life.
E. She was able to attempt the "God-Like" whatever she was actually performing "with what Rubel had taught her about doing in regards to Luciela" with dead Luciela's corpse, which she failed and incompleted resulting in her merely being half-merged with dead Luciela's corpse and somehow resulting in the creation of the Destroyer within her head/brain/mind.
F. She's the oldest or longest living Claymore, even still now in ch 113 - I think.
G. Regeneration (as mentioned already above)
Last edited by HegemonKhan; April 13, 2011 at 02:17 AM.
Thank you HegemonKhan for your explanation, it makes sense from your point of view. I don't agree with it however since I have a different stance to start with, but it sounds logical from your point.
My own view is that none of the claymores other then Teresa can solo an AO (Isley, Riful, and Luciela). We known that Alicia and Beth can not defeat Riful by their own words and they were #1 at the time or more like two #'1s since they were twins. We also know that if any single claymore is as powerful as an AO at the time, they wouldn't need to sent half of the claymore to Pieta to buy time for Alicia & Beth's to complete training. They wouldn't also need to create abyssal feeders.
I think it's also widely accepted that once a claymore awakens and becomes an AB, the AB is more powerful then her previous claymore self. By that logic Luciela in her state as an AO, would be more powerful then her twin Rafaela whom has not awaken. A half awaken like Clare, Miria, Jean and others can train and become more powerful claymores that can surpass their original AB form if they had awaken.
Imagine if the Organization had a claymore as powerful as Teresa in Clare's era. They wouldn't need to do all these fancy plotting. They would just say "#1" go take care of the situation in Pieta and it would be done and done; or "#1" go find Clare and while you at it take care of Riful of the West since you will be near the area. Of course granted that The Organization had no clue of Teresa's true power so they couldn't do that in first place.
My view on the power scale or I like to call it the Teresa power scale.
Tier 0: Awaken Teresa (That would be god like I think)
Tier 1: Claymore Teresa (50-80%), Priscilla (I don't think there was enough information to know if Teresa can defeat Priscilla without going over 80%)
Tier 2: The Destroyer
Tier 3: AO Trio
Tier 3.5: Infested Dauf
Tier 4: Claymore Teresa (Over 20%)
Tier 5: 1/2 Awaken Clare, Alicia & Beth and Rafaela (also hard to determin whom will come up on top)
Tier 5.5: Awaken Rosemary
Tier 6: Rigardo, Pre infested Dauf, Awaken Ophelia (She was holding back when fighting Clare, her true protential was never realized)
Tier 7: Claymore Teresa (10%)
Tier 8: Claymore Clare, Miria, and Deneve
Tier 9: Helen, Current Galatea, Irene and Miata
Tier 10 ~ 45: Everyone else
Tier 46: Claymore Trainee Teresa
Tier 47: Clarice
Tier 48: That annoying person they called Raki
I'not a fan of Miria, but i'm happy to see her anymore.
Awakened Teresa wouldnt be stronger than Priscilla. When Teresa fought Priscilla, teresa realized that Priscilla would surpass her. Something along the lines of "even if i can can defeat her now, it would be impossible to tell the next time we meet." So priscilla would have become much stronger than teresa. Just imagine claymore Priscilla as a newbie Clare in the begining of the series, no where near her full realized strength. So Teresa would be the second strongest possible awakened and would not be superior to Priscilla.
On hegemons post, Rubel states that Raphaela is equal in strength to Luciela when she was a claymore. We all know that awakening grants a massive boost in power, so awakened Luciela was much stronger than Raphaela, even if you add in her age and training, it doesn't make sense that she would surpass her sister who is awakened and was equal in power. Also i don't think that rubel taught her any special technique, Rubel states that he needs raphaelas help and for her to come back to the Org. and be granted #5 status, he says that the abysals have begun to make moves and that a battle between them is imminent. Rubel futher states that one of the abysals who might die is luciela. Raphaela apparently didn't know where her sister was and Rubel told her as the payment of coming back to service. When Raphaela found Luciela her sword was clenched and she seemed prepared to kill luciela, but when Luciela cried in happiness at her sister, raphaela immediatly threw down her sword and hugged her. It was only when luciela started to babble nonsense like "please awaken" that Raphaela realised her sister was a monster and decided to kill her. I don't think that raphaela had any intention of creating a new awakened, she instead seemed resolved to kill luciela, rubel also states this in his chat with her.
if you're interested, we have a thread just for Teresa vs Priscilla, so you can take a look at all the arguments made there.
if you wish to continue a discussion about Teresa vs Priscilla, please do so in the Teresa vs Priscilla thread, as that's what the thread was created for!
about Rafaela, here's some sources on the things you responded to in your post:
Originally Posted by HegemonKhan
you can draw whatever conclusions or theories of your own from these sources, but these sources are the data/information/evidence/facts/content that the manga has given to us to use and to make sense of what is/has possibly happened
Last edited by HegemonKhan; April 13, 2011 at 06:36 PM.
Moderator message by: HegemonKhanWhich, backs up, PROVES, what she had just said, hehe
Moderator message by: HegemonKhanTeresa was actually at exactly 10% YR (Just enough to change her eyes to golden/yellow, which is 10% YR). We NEVER seen Teresa over 10% YR in her few chapters within the entire manga. In fact, Teresa had NEVER needed even 10% YR, until 70% YR Priscilla, lol
See Teresa vs Priscilla thread for example.
I think Rafaela knew where Luciela were the entire time but she knew she couldn't defeat an awaken Luciela. We know Rafaela was really good at finding people and I doubt Luciela were trying to hide her massive yoki like Riful. She had to wait for the right time when her sister is weaken to engage her. That happend after Luciela fought Isley. I also think she was determin to kill her sister but she just couldn't do it in the end. Maybe she tried to do the whole reverse awakening technique like with Clare and Jean but somehow it didn't go as plan. I don't know, I'm just saying.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; April 13, 2011 at 07:05 PM.
so most likely there would be another release after next weeks' release?
About Miria being alive I think it just foreshadows her death. I mean its a tragic manga isnt it? So there would be some deaths coming just not sure who it is but I think Miria would be one of them. Just a hunch
OK, here's a way out theory I came up with. We have the Org planning on re-aninmating 3 former no. 1s.
By coincidence, we have three entities in the blob. What would happen if Priscilla were to revert to half awakened status and regain her sanity while trapped in the blob and Teresa were to reappear as well. Pris would still be one of the most powerful beings on the island teamed up with Teresa. That would leave Clare, whose power has been growing exponentially since the beginning.
I'm sure both Priscilla and Teresa would harbor no alliegence to the Org and Clare is already on the revolt bandwagon. Now we have Teresa restored so Clare's revenge angle is gone and Priscilla with a sane mind. An anti Org Troika?
This could end up a 3x3 battle for either control of the Org or its destruction.
I know this is a wild theory, and I really have nothing to back it up with, but it's a thought.
Moderator message by: HegemonKhanI just have a problem with your 3v3 match up... had we not seen Priscilla alone showing she'd all by herself UBER PWN these three (Cassandra, Unknown, Unknown) rank 1 Claymores? Ask AOs Alicia+Beth, especially AO Alicia, getting her head slap-smack decapitated from her neck and thus very dead, before she even realized Priscilla had moved from her position of being let's say 10 meters away, and that she was already dead, lol.
to quote Seras Victoria in Hellsing Ultimate OVA 7:
"Yukimas, Yukimas, Yukimas!" (Please forgive my sorry attempt at Japanese!)
("SLAUGHTER, SLAUGHTER, SLAUGHTER!")
But, as we know, the earlier gen #1' would PWN the modern #1's. It seems as though the quality is going down. Even Miria was taking on the replacement twins until Raftella intervened and messed up her mind. We also don't know anything about Cassandra, except that it took 126 wounds and several hours to kill her. We know nothing of the other two. However, since it appears that the older gen Claymores were more powerful than the modern ones, it stands to reason that the 3v3 matchup may be realistic.
I don't think A & B could have stood up to Claymore Teresa even on a good day, so the older #1's should be every bit as strong as the Priscilla/Teresa/Clare match-up.
Last edited by rcfalcon; April 14, 2011 at 10:42 AM. Reason: mod response
It's just an opinion (although I agree with it). For a n-th time: http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showpo...&postcount=421 In manga it's ambiguous and Viz translator added the word "exactly".Originally Posted by HegemonKhan
Week before official release of Jump SQ #5-6, we already have a cover:
Like I said earlier, Claymore was supposed to have coloured page in #5 issue so we should receive at least one page in colour.
Since it will cost 540 yen I doubt it will be bigger, i.e. we'll get only one chapter of Claymore. Maybe someone could read what's written on that red circle.
What worries me is that I don't see Claymore mentioned on the cover or official site.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; April 14, 2011 at 06:09 PM. Reason: Finestela's response
seeing the recent post blanked my mind of all previous pages as it has been overtaken by sheer annoyance. I don't care if I sound like a spoiled girl but SRS MAN!? It's such a letdown already that there's 12/yr but this yr (or w/e) it's 11?! Not to mention each chapter virtually tormenting the reader!? NO WAY MAN!
Being so upset like this, I feel like a crack addict... which is really pathetic!
W/E Might as well put in my 2 cents while i'm here.
I predict more of Miria's castle storming next chap. It would be stupid to do anything but a brief switch to the other chars as castle storming is SOOOO heat of the moment right now! (You're not storming a castle!? That is so last year!)
Miria's back AS I KNEW (feeling quite boastful) Seeing as it has been some time and my memory can be compared to that of a goldfish, i will finish this reply and recheck how exactly Miria dodged the bullet there. From what i vaguely recalled, it seemed she just big dogged the other claymores and they were like "Ooooh you're so strong~~~" resulting in her getting a scar but feeling so fly like a G6. (damn right i just went there. Didn't see that comin'!)