to put it simply, Clare wouldn't be Clare, if she gave up her revenge/justice on Priscilla for taking away Clare's beloved Teresa and the pairing of happiness/life of Clare+Teresa.
Miria wouldn't be Miria, if she killed Claymores.
At some point, people need to understand that people (or characters) do have unique identities, agree or disagree (morally) with those identities, they are their identities, it's who/what they are, and that these identities are these people (or characters) as much (or more) as their own bodies are theirs.
"We do what we are, and we are what we do" -HK
in one view:
Priscilla is a tragic victim of the Organization, just as everyone is, unless she's truly evil and was deceiving everyone... hehe
in another view:
Priscilla is either evil or insane (or both, lol).
and in the most popular view:
regardless of the morality/motive/mentality/mindset and guilt/innocence of Priscilla's actions, we hate and can't forgive her for what she done to our beloved Clare and Teresa (and Ophelia, Riful-fans, and now Raki too in regards with flying off to kill his beloved/precious Clare) and their beloved bond with one another, lol
Unforgivable! (~"unicevi !", meh, don't laugh, I don't know Japanese and can't hear that well either)
Kill Priscilla! (~"Kurocer/kutchioke Priscilla!", meh, don't laugh, I don't know Japanese and can't hear that well either)
Last edited by HegemonKhan; March 13, 2011 at 06:32 AM.
Very good point HegemonKhan
If not Priscilla this all story could never been happen, and without Clare determination to revenge, manga where not to be where it is now.
So everything for now is only a prelude to final conflict made from little tasks. But We will see, on what kind of revelations We will debate after chapter No. 114.
Yurusenai = Unforgivable
Korosu Priscilla = Kill Priscilla
Google improved their japan - polish (other languages) translator
But after what We had seen... Is Priscilla really is able to die? Or what power would be able to do that... Scary little thing...
Have a nice afternoon
Last edited by colonywars; March 23, 2011 at 03:28 AM.
The one aspect we are all forgeting is that in the anime, Clare spares Priscilla in the end. I don't know if that has any relevance here, but it is worth considering. If Yagi spared Priscilla once, he can do it again in the manga.
Just a thought.
Welcome to ths site and the Claymore forum, rcfalcon! I hope you love Claymore as much as I do, and make many more great posts! hehe
I don't know how much Yagi was involved with the anime's alteration, maybe he was and maybe he wasn't (other than giving it the affirmation).
Personally, the ending is very NON-Japanese and lame, I feel it was done just to appease whoever likes such a lame ending (certainly not me, lol), rather than being what Yagi actually wants/intends for his Claymore story.
The manga could very well follow in the anime's altered ending and I hope it doesn't, ughn!, lol. But, I think the manga has so progressed beyond the anime, that it's not going to follow the anime's altered ending.
The last things that Yagi has left us thus far in the chapters of the manga:
Clare: ~"I don't actually care about Raki+Love and friends+Love+Friendship, all I truly want is to get my revenge on Priscilla, I will abandon my humanity and whatever promising future that I may have, I will merge with the Destroyer and use it to hopefully permanently seal/trap Priscilla forever if I can't kill her, without hesitation for my vengence on Priscilla"
(we do have the issue of something/someone, including Clare herself, within Clare PREVENTING Clare from killing Priscilla, but thus Clare consciously DOES DESIRE to kill Priscilla, lol)
Priscilla: ~"I want to kill this Clare, my 'Teresa', my one threat to my rule of the island/world, how dare my prey gets taken from me!, I will unleash my FULL POWER on the Destroyer, for taking away my Clare, my 'Teresa', my prey, RAWR! If Clare~Teresa lives, I'll hunt her down relentless and kill her, she's the single threat upon my life, nothing else endangers me! Clare~Teresa must be killed at all costs, she is the only bane to my absolute power!"
Anime ending was made without ending of chapters War on the North, and with that kind of ending there will be no 7 Ghosts but 4 (Clare, Deneve, Helen, Miria), and without revenge plot Clare will live with Raki happy like Teresa intended to Her. So manga then should end, I don't know, after 4 chapters with Mirias plot to attacks HQ with intending to destroy it, and I think She will be then pwnd.
Or maybe Priscilla will awoke, and Easley also will fight against Riful and Luciela? Maybe Yagi has some alternate version of story line being inspired a little with anime ending? Who knows?
Have a nice day
Along with countless others, I too suspected the heavy hand of corporate politics in the last two or three anime scenes. When I first watched the anime, I was unfamiliar with the manga. The anime did made sense till the last episodes, when it veered away from the original manga storyline (unknown to me at the time).
The upside was to read the manga and see what "really happened." Ending the anime with the deaths of 17 warriors might be too gloomy (hence not commercial) for the corporate bureaucrats, as Hege noted. As been noted elsewhere on this and other forums, the MBA bean-counters will continue the global MacDonaldization of all media, including making "dark" manga more "mainstream."
But on a more positive note, colonywars speculations for future anime would work (at least for me). We're all hoping to see some(any?)thing.
(I re-watched the anime a few weeks ago. I find myself more accepting the series for what it is and grateful that it was made at all!)
Last edited by jamie95403; March 23, 2011 at 12:38 PM.
As far as something or someone preventing Clare from killing Priscilla, I have a theory as well. It may be lame, but here goes.
Priscilla was able to sense Teresa/Clare presence, although faint, on Raki even though Clare and Raki really hadn't travelled together for very long. She stuck with him for seven years or so because of that. Once Teresa/Clare's presence was felt more strongly away from Raki, Priscilla abandoned him.
Conversely, since Raki was with Priscilla for seven years, is it possible that Clare was able to sense Raki's presence on Priscilla and the question of his fate stopped her? Raki has always been the stabilizing influence on Clare and he did help save her in the Holy City in the beginning. Although she may not admit it, I think that she at least shares a friendship with Raki that will need to be explored, unless of course Yagi kills her off. Then all bets are off.
I also wonder about a merge between Rafaela and Clare since Rafaela told Clare she would give her the secret to destroying the Destroyer if she passed the test, which I believe she did.
Last edited by rcfalcon; March 23, 2011 at 08:58 AM.
I wrote somewhere, that I am really waiting for OVA or another season of anime, but in My opinion producers could wait a month or 2 before ending season 1, or ask Yagi about directions to develop a plots in other direction. In the end is how it is. The one positive thing from anime is that the ending leaves a lot of possibilities to include in another series. And if producers will want they can easily take already revealed in manga plots, without even change a lot from it. And even begin from capture Raki by Org, fight between Easley and others on domination and awake Priscilla, thus it will be really piss off Clare
And now Yagi gave Us resurrection, even former No. 1 (maybe even Teresa? ) So possibilities ARE amazing and outstanding
Maybe then Clare will have Her vengeance, Org will be destroyed, Yomas slashed to dust and everybody will live happy.
But it is not Yagi style of guidance this plot, and I think We will get on what We are waiting for. ?
Now that is a very interesting idea, but Clare has Teresa scent due Her flesh and blood implanted in Her so She will always be smell like Teresa and Clare. (Maybe like Teen Spirit? ) As for Raki maybe His scent was present on Priscilla and Her cloths, but is that really was holding up Clare from attacking, and attempts to awoke?Originally Posted by rcfalcon
And then Deneve said about this "wedge" thing, including Jean and Clare subconsciousness, so maybe deep inside Clare has many "psychical brakes" ? (Ch 101 also contains data about rising awakened abilities due physical training only )
Have a nice evening
I still think there is a small thread of humanity in Clare that wants to fulfill Teresa's wish for her to live as a human. That too could be the reason she couldn't kill Priscilla.
I actually have a theory:Originally Posted by colonywars
who would want Priscilla not to be killed by Clare?
Clare? NO, Clare VERY MUCH WANTS TO KILL Priscilla (at least consciously anyways)!
Jean? NO, there has been ***ZERO*** contact between the two, lol. This "wedge" thing is probably very badly translated unfortunately, sighs, and no one has really been able to translate it better, as far as I'm aware. It can't have anything to do with Jean directly, as I made clear above, but maybe it has something to do with Clare's subconscious... which may not have anything to do with Jean.. but rather herself... or... Teresa...
so who... well... who actually spared Priscilla over and over again.... dun dun dun...
Teresa inside of Clare is physically preventing Clare from killing Priscilla! It's not that Clare is prevented from Partially Awakening, but rather, something or someone (my theory: TERESA), was preventing Clare from killing Priscilla. As can be seen, with Clare's HUGE BLADE ARMS being STOPPED just an inch from pulverising Priscilla's head/face!!!!! THEN, we see the "retraction". Yet, Clare IS able to re-Partially Awaken again, in order to again to try to kill Priscilla, AND NOW Clare is prevented from Partially Awakening, to prevent Clare from killing Priscilla, as Clare keeps trying/wanting to kill Priscilla, so to prevent this, Clare's now unable to Partially Awaken!
(if you need the source, the chapters and pages, I can provide picture by picture, exactly what I described above)
I personally disagree with this, as I explain why here:Originally Posted by rcfalcon
that's Teresa's wishes/desires... for Clare to "live as a human, live with humans, and die as a human".
This was Teresa's own desire/wish. This is the one time Teresa FAILS at something. Teresa FAILS at understanding Clare. Teresa WRONGLY assumes Clare shares Teresa's own desire/wish (which i just described above).
Teresa's wish/desire/understanding (of happiness) was to be human again. Teresa yearned to be human again. ~"my beautiful black eyes and long black hair stolen from me as I transformed into a wretched monster, a Claymore".
Clare did NOT shared this same desire/wish/understanding (of happiness) as of Teresa's. Clare HAD KNOWN humanity.... and it was CENSORED! her whole family killed and eaten. she being a yoma's "pet" and no human cared/tried to help/save her. instead, she was saved twice by Claymores, from the 2 yomas whom were involved with Clare. Claymores were more of clare's "family" then humans ever would be. Clare had no attachment to humanity, unlike the "yearning-for-a-return-to-humanity" Teresa. (which Clare gave/provided Teresa, a sense of humanity again, albiet briefly, due to priscilla. Clare UNDERSTOOD Teresa. However, Teresa for the first time, FAILED at something; Teresa failed at understanding Clare.)
Clare's already experienced human life was awful. Clare had no desire to go back to being human. Becoming a Claymore was a wonderful thing for Clare, as she now had the potential power/ability to seek her vengence on Priscilla. Clare NEVER looked back upon her lost humanity, never had second thoughts about becoming a Claymore. Clare was dead, until she found Teresa, then dead again after Priscilla killed Teresa. Now, the only thing keeping Clare alive or interested with life, is the pursuit of REVENGE ON PRISCILLA. Clare lives ONLY TO KILL PRISCILLA. This is all that is left for Clare which she cares about. As nice as Raki+love is, and as nice as comrades+friendship is, it just doesn't compare/substitute for what Clare felt from being with Teresa. Teresa was literally Clare's life and happiness. Now that Teresa is gone, all that remains for Clare is vengence.
NO. Clare's idea of happiness was NOT returning to humanity, as what Teresa wanted. NO, it was Teresa herself. Teresa was Clare's idea of happiness. Being with Teresa was Clare's idea of happiness.
again.... i'll quote Clare's very words:
~"I don't want nice shoes. I don't want nice clothes. ( <- HK's interpretation: I don't care about humanity, I'm not like you Teresa... i just want... -> ). I want to be with TERESA FOREVER!"
we're talking about Clare, so who cares about what Teresa or irene or others want of Clare. What CLARE wants is what matters for CLARE. Teresa and Irene and others are merely EPIC FAILURES, at understanding CLARE'S WISHES/DESIRES/INTERESTS. they need to keep their own wishes, desires, interests to themselves, and LET CLARE SEEK THE THINGS SHE WANTS/WISHES/DESIRES FOR HERSELF!
Last edited by HegemonKhan; March 23, 2011 at 11:14 PM.
HK, good points.
However, if Clare succeeds in killing Priscilla, what happens to Clare then? That really leaves her as a one dimensional character and that is one thing she really isn't.
I tend to agree that Teresa's wish for Clare was really for herself and your point rings true. Clare's experience with the human world was a nightmare and she was the first Claymore "volunteer" so returning to a human type existence may not be in the cards for her. However, I still think there is something there between Raki and her. Maybe not love or a familial type relationship, but something. I wonder if Raki's encounter with the Destroyer and Priscilla's arm may give him Claymore like abilities. If Clare survives and Raki can escape, that could enable them to be partners against the Org or the usual gang of characters.
I don't think Clare really even knows what she desires for herself.
I'm also not sure it's Teresa that is preventing Clare from killing Priscilla. Teresa was all set to kill her, especially after she awakened. AB's were not on Teresa's spare list even if a fellow Claymore was. At this point, there should be no holding back.
I still think maybe it's Jean. Not in a direct sense, but since Clare saved Jean after she awakened, and Jean saved Clare in the same way, maybe there is something left over from the encounters that is trying to save Priscilla in the same way.
It could also be that when Clare witnessed Pricilla's transformation to an AB in order to kill Teresa that some part of her doesn't want to go the same way. Killing Priscilla as a Claymore is one thing, resorting to AB status with the possibility of no return to do it is another. That may be where the Jean/Clare encounter is kicking in.
Hym... After 7 years and even more (about 8 to 10 ?) since Raki was left alone by Clare... I really don't know any kind of scents attractants (even animal pheromones) that could last on Human skin, clothes, for so long time. Usually after some showers and with skin growth rate after 3 to 6 weeks scent is totally gone. Maybe this "scent" was in something that Clare gives Raki and belongs to Her for longer that they know with which other. But even then for that period of time it is rather impossible. But as We saw Yagi gives Us more spectacularly things, so there is no other option left like to (with some kind of disbelieve) that it is really true and was necessarily to push action forward. Or maybe AB like Priscilla can detect single pheromone molecule in concentration 1 / 100 000 000 000 ? Then I like to employ Her instead of Gas Chromatograph which sometimes I use in my work With that high sensitivity She beats it on by KO.
OK. What kind of business Teresa may have to stop Clare fight against AB? Against enemy She normally fight, and against person who kill Her? She was Warrior over the Warriors. She never retreat, even when fighting with Her former companions. Yes, She was glad that Rosemary awakened first, before sent Her a Black Card, but She do not hesitate to kill Her. When fighting against Priscilla, beaten Her up, She gave up to kill Her. As I wrote somewhere She as a Warrior can not kill crying little kid. Maybe it was Clare influence, perhaps it Was, but after then She fight again without any kind of emotions in Her Yellow Eyes.Originally Posted by HegemonKhan
The only reason I see, is that She prevent Clare by being killed, not to prevent Her to kill AB, natural enemy. Even that it seems to Me far more stretched because Teresa never retreated against enemy. (It does not change the fact, that She never meet enemy from She must retreat). Teresa dream is not Clare dream, and Clare with Her stubbornness (very nice post HK ) always do what She wants, so now without any special reason She was suppressed by Teresa's part in Her? I do not buy this. Really as warrior which Clare become Teresa also was a Warrior. I think, that We sooner or later will get answers to Ours questions, especially when Yagi return to this "Blob Thing"
Have a nice day
Last edited by colonywars; March 24, 2011 at 08:15 AM.
just a small comment about scents:
(I think there's only these 4, but maybe there's even more that I'm forgetting about)
1. As has already been pointed out, Raki had Clare-Teresa 's scent or their Yoki scent on him, which Priscilla noticed and USED Raki to lead her to Clare-Teresa to kill "Teresa" again for a second time.
2A. Miata could smell Galatea's yoki scent still lingering in the air after more than a year later, and followed it to Rabona!
2B. Miata could SMELL the power levels of the Ghosts and Claymores (Galatea's)
"Very Strong" = Clare, Miria, and Galatea
"Strong" = Cynthia, Deneve, Helen, Tabatha, and Yuma
3A. The AFs can track a scent of a being or their yoki anywhere on the island, and do so easily, unless that being hides amongst a town of humans, using the humans' odors to mask their own odor or their yoki's odor. I'm talking about Isley, and than there's Riful, which another "batch" of the AFs "trained to a piece of her flesh's scent from Audrey+Rachel 's mission to cut off a piece of her flesh, who were rescued by the Ghosts, and went straight to her.
3B. Dietrich herself uses a piece of Riful's dress, to lead the remaining AFs (Alicia did NOT kill all of them, lol) to where Yuma is, saving Yuma, by having the AFs and Hellcats engage with each other, and the two of them killing off the ones that they need to, to ensure both sides, AFs and Hellcats, got wiped out.
Obviously the "Scents", either as odor from a being or the odor from their yoki, isn't like most normal scents/odors, as has been pointed out they linger on for quite a while. The "scents" or odors in Claymore is more like half-life radiation in how long it lasts or in that it doesn't disappear, hehe
I'm obviously not an expert on scents and odors, but I'd think there's probably some scents/odors in the real world that DO last for a long time. I could be wrong though.
but you make a good point of how the world or people's sheding/replicating new skin can "erode" or disipate/dillude/disperse the scents/odors, hehe.
you make a good point with the holes/problems with my theory of it being Teresa who is causing the problem for Clare.
hmm.. maybe it is Clare herself indeed, and not Teresa somehow controlling Clare's body.
I just personally have a problem, as Clare consciously KEPT trying to kill Priscilla, not to mention has been in pursuit of killing Priscilla from prior to ch 1 to ~ ch 105?, yet at the same time, she's preventing herself from doing so? This just doesn't "compute" for me. I just don't see how Clare can consciously want to kill Priscilla, but subconsciously she doesn't. It's got to be one or the other... lol.
But, then I got the problems with Teresa which you pointed out as well:
Teresa was about to kill Priscilla (with Clare watching) but Irene rushes over and parries before Teresa's sword decapitates Priscilla. (this is while they battled still in town)
Teresa then changes and "slyly" asks Clare to go get her things, so that she can decapitate Priscilla while Clare is away, so Clare doesn't see an execution (though, Clare herself earlier was watching Teresa's suppose to have been execution by the ring of Claymores, and it's not like lil Clare hadn't seen death and killing before... Teresa's very initial contact with Clare was chopping the NY in half with it's left side falling to the left of Clare and it's right side falling to the Right of Clare, and its blood...spurting all over Clare, lol). (this is at the end of the "town" scene)
We then again see Teresa willing to kill the about to awaken Priscilla in front of Clare... except Priscilla decapitates Teresa instead...
So, indeed Teresa is a bit confusing... does Teresa care and not want to kill Priscilla, or does she not care and has no problems with killing Priscilla, lol.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; March 24, 2011 at 09:07 AM.
1.Ok I will assume that this scent comes from Yoki, and it is something unnatural and I will leave this subject, because it is all Yagi fantasia and imagination and it is the reason of events which are now happening in manga. There are organic compounds that have extremely long time of presence, like Human hemoglobin that can be found on crime scene even after a long period of time, but there is only a problem to detect such amount of substance. Lets leave it, it is does not change anythingOriginally Posted by HegemonKhan
2.Now that is a question that gives Me a headache You really got here a point HegemonKhan, and I am unable to answer to this question...Originally Posted by HegemonKhan
To faces of Teresa of the Faint Smile, ruthless, extremely powerful Warrior with her own codex of honor against Woman who takes care on child and discovered Her suppressed Humanity and even learn how to cry... Ech... Or maybe one come from another?
I assume (pure speculation!) that Teresa was ready to kill Priscilla, even with Clare watching on this, and as You mentioned it was not be the first time, when Clare saw Teresa in action. So what is the difference, one dead body more? But due some unreasonable plot of events Priscilla was just a little faster and then it was already over. And because this is the very, very beginning of whole manga it just must be happened. If not, what, forever pursuit Org after fugitive, one fight after another, purely speculative manga would never have been like as is now.
I don't want (from the other hand I already wrote some alternate speculations) assume what will be "IF" I am interested what will "BE" in this line. Like in SF movies in another dimension Teresa kills Priscilla, in another one Clare was never born, and maybe in another Priscilla had not kill Her own father and live happy. But who really knows? When We have what We have now and here. Yagi knows what He is doing, otherwise We would not have this discussion
Have a good evening
Last edited by colonywars; March 24, 2011 at 02:23 PM. Reason: Ech... My english is getting better but still... :p
I don't think of it as scents in the traditional sense. More like yoki or other force rather than say pheremonal or particulate smell, which, as pointed out, wouldn't last long enough.
Priscilla was able to "sense" Clare/Teresa on Raki even though they'd been separated long enough for any traditional scent to have long evaportated.