Admittedly, I don't see the long range option being effective for Gin though. I'm sure Shunsui could dodge it at distance, but in the situation where it only needs to be pointed at you when you're clashing swords, it can and will be difficult.
However, Gin probably won't use Bankai off the bat either, once his Shikai is shown, Shunsui would likely figure out the basics of what his Bankai probably is, and be ready for it.
Gin still needs less luck and work than Shunsui. That's not to say Shunsui can't pull off some good kills on Gin, but for overall, my money's on Gin.
What and Shunsui lets him? Dude has an extra sword AND reach over him in CQC, is considerably faster, and worse still casually dodged mass amounts of instantaneous cero. Again, the moment Gin swings wildly is a moment an opening is easily presentable. His best bet is careful sniping from a distance with quick shots, as that lets him easily react if Shunsui closes the distance, or better yet trying to get out of Shunsui's sight for a backstab. Suffice to say however, he's considerably faster than anything Gin's pulled though, so not likely.
Edit: Though of course his absolute best and highest chance is the initial blow though, which is easily the point where I can see the win be taken. But given his wretched use of that prior I'm not impressed to say the least.
Last edited by Random101; March 06, 2011 at 02:22 AM.
Well I agree with Takahashi in that it will certainly be difficult to dodge Gin's blade when they're clashing swords and all Gin really needs to do is point the thing at you. Like I said, one wrong move and you will be toast.
Gin hiding and then sniping Shunsui is not a bad strategy either though. But I don't think that's the only way Gin could win.
Now this, ladies is gentlemen, is arguably the most interesting fight in the entire tournament. Arguably the strongest captain of Gotei 13 after Yamamoto and Unohana against a child prodigy, most powerful commander of Aizen’s arrancars. Dramatic huh?
Back when the speed of Kamishini no Yari’s contraction was thought to be 500x of a simple hand clap and the length of the blade was considered 13km I argued, albeit I was not sure 100%, that Shunsui (with just his shikai) stood no chance in blue hell of defeating Mr. Ichimaru. When the true nature of the bankai was revealed, I honestly could not decide whether it could or could not take down Shunsui. E.g. whether the true nature if Kamishini makes Gin advantage over Shunsui or not. On one hand, Gin simply does not possess abovementioned qualities that would allow him to match Shunsui’s insane speed, but on the other hand – a simple scratch from Kamishini No Yari is pretty much enough to secure Gin’s victory. After all, give or take KK’s game rules, a deadly poison is still a deadly poison.
So… I don’t know!!!!
Still, I honestly think that Gin will have an edge over Shunsui in this fight, because really, how is it possible not to get a single scratch when fighting Mr. Ichimaru?
Well, the poison seems to more or less implode a small area that the fragment was located in. Aizen didn't disintegrate, a chest or head hit is likely the only way to kill. A scratch likely wouldn't corrode the area necessary for a kill, although it would probably hurt like a bitch.
This also just occurred to me, but when Aizen got owned, Gin first placed his hand on the area of his chest and said "kill". Could that be a requirement? Does Gin need to make some sort of physical connection to complete the ability? I honestly don't know, but if he does, I'd probably give it to Shunsui by a marginal amount.
Personally, Gin is one of the most overrated characters in the manga to me. Outside of his slight fight with Ichigo, and his attempted kill on Aizen... he didn't actually DO anything. No impressive Shunpo, no impressive kido, no impressive swordsmanship, just his (rather lacking) shikai, and his (extends really long and fast! j/k it's actually poison for a plot twist) bankai.
Actually, the only aspect of Gin's bankai that IS impressive is the poison, and he has to land a hit for that to work. Those of you saying that he "wasn't trying to kill Ichigo" only really have a point in that he didn't activate poison. I mean he tells Aizen it's not as fast or long as he claims it to be, and most of what he did say to Ichigo was, by his own admission, psychological combat.
Ultimately, unless you think Gin can actually control the rate at which is zanpakuto extends and retracts, and was deliberately slowing it so that Ichigo could parry and dodge it and prevent it from being a fatal blow (which there's no proof of), then you have to accept that the strikes that Ichigo dodged and parried were the extent of its speed/power.
Ichigo couldn't see Ulquiorra very well, and couldn't see Stark at all. Shunsui could see Stark perfectly fine and fight him to a draw/kill in actual combat. The only logical leap you can take with this is that Shunsui's perception and speed are a pretty significant cut above Ichigo's... who was able to parry and dodge Gin's attacks/bankai, even in his rather pathetic state.
Anyways, I see situations in which Gin wins this, particularly due to the "don't know opponent's abilities" rule. Without knowing how deadly his bankai is, dodging it completely may not be a priority for anyone.
This match, for me, really comes down to how fast/perceptive Shunsui is compared to Ichigo, and whether he can dodge Gin's bankai with relative ease.
Shunsui is probably superior in base stats and has more experience.
Gin has one of the most deadly bankai's out there, and it's very fast one good hit hit with it would kill Shunsui.
Shunsui wins this 5.5/10 times against a bankai Gin.
1. Haven't seen enough of Shunsui to make a complete judgement about him.
2. Seen enough of Gin to realize that he has an arsenal of deadly attacks.
Gin wins, because there isn't enough evidence to say otherwise.
Haven't seen enough of Shunsui? Kageoni, Hiding in shadows, which a BIG LONG SWORD would create. Bushogoma, which encircles the opponent with a spinning wind vortex to throw the opponents senses off balance. Takaoni, which allows Shunsui to automatically get the higher ground advantage. And probably the most dangerous, Irooni, the color game where the damage done is relative to the amount of color you're wearing.
What is Gin going to do to stop Shunsui from taking his head off in an instant? It won't be that easy, sure. And we seriously think that Gin's sword will reach or even touch Shunsui? He's too fast. Dodging instantaneous ceros from Starrk. Then dodging machine gun ceros before Juushiro steps in. Bushogoma and Takaoni worked fine before the 'mood' crap (manga plot) was brought up. Just because he doesn't use all of his games at once doesn't mean he doesn't have his speed, his kido (blasting Chad with one finger) or his cunning whits (deciphering starrks guns being able to fire more than cero).
Shunsui wins this more often than not. 7/10 at least for me. Nothing is stopping him from dodging a sword attack which is way too big and long for it's own good. Creates lots of shadows from it's base user who can be attacked from any point within the shadow since the blade is always connected to Gin. He can always use Bushogoma to encircle Gin to confuse him on which direction he's coming from. If that doesn't work he'll just dodge Gin's blade. If Ichigo can do it and Hitsugaya can do it back in SS, Shunsui who's almost every captains' senior in skill set can do it.
If you really think Gin with maybe two moves can beat a seasoned captain who was praised to be the best that has came from the academy, you must be off your rocker. Gin's a child prodigy? So is Hitsugaya, still needed Bankai to hang with Ichigo! Shunsui needed two shots from Shikai to take down Primera Espada. Took a cero to the back at point blank range and had no damage. Took the strongest attack in irooni from starrk's call of white, came back, called black and basically sliced Starrk in half.
This fight can go either way but I think Shunsui has the edge here. Shunsui is fast enough to keep up with Starrk and dodge many attacks from him including instantaneous cero and machine gun cero. I don't think it would be easy for Gin to hit Shunsui with his extending sword which even Ichigo dodged to some extent. And it seems Gin has to be touching his opponent to activate the poison which is another problem.
Moreover, Shunsui has shadow game. Shunsui can stab Gin in the chest just like he stabbed Starrk, all he needs to do is stab the ground with his sword and that's it. Gin won't see what hit him.
And then there's the color game. Shunsui can play a color game and call "black" when he's still wearing his white captain haori. Even if Gin's bankai attacks somehow connect, they will pass through Shunsui (as if Shunsui is an incorporeal spirit) without doing any damage because Shunsui will have no black on him and before Gin can figure out what's going on, he'll see Shunsui's haori on his face and we know the rest.
Of course, Gin, especially with his bankai, is no pushover and I can see scenarios in which Gin wins but it seems to me that Shunsui's victory is more likely. Shunsui's abilities are very hard to figure out if Shunsui doesn't tell Gin about it, IMO Shunsui wins.
[Edit] I assume Gin will be wearing this:
Last edited by Gran Maestro; March 06, 2011 at 06:04 AM.
Gin wins this one for sure. He's obviously not going to mess around with Shunsui like he did with Ichigo and his bankai is just far too deadly. He literally just needs one hit and I highly doubt Shunsui can defeat Gin without sustaining a single scratch.
Shunsui's shikai is also pretty deadly but he's going to be on the defensive for the majority of this fight, kageoni is the only real threat here but I don't think it's enough to kill Gin.