Or, you know, Shinji didn't have Sakanade active on Aizen at the time.Quote:
Again, if he didn't activate it until the moment Aizen noticed him standing there, it makes sense that Hitsugaya wasn't upside down, seeing as how we've never seen an attack take place while upside down.Quote:
Which is the point I was making in the first place. That the lack of upside down actual battling being drawn means that Shinji isn't turning it on and off.Quote:
That would be because it's easier to show someone charging upside down than fighting upside down; again, that's my point.Quote:
Again, all that proves is that it wasn't active until that moment. You can argue that Shinji can chose who is affected and when, but there's no proof that Sakanade was even active until the moment Hitsugaya stabbed Aizen.Quote:
Last edited by UchihaHunter; March 16, 2011 at 12:35 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Aside from that, Shinji didn't even try to keep Grimmjow from releasing. What would he have done? How about beat him down again? Grimmjow's the one you're gonna have to make a case for somehow becoming stronger than Shinji in his release form, and seeing as Grimmjow had to weaken Shinji's cero just to survive it, while Shinji walked away unscatched and untouched, its gonna be an uphill battle on your part making a case.
Shinji can choose who he wants the effect to be placed on apparently, seeing as no one but Aizen had their senses inverted during the group attack performed by Hitsugaya, Soi Fon, Kyoraku and Shinji himself. So its just a matter of him alleviating the effects on Zaraki if necessary, which I don't think it is.Quote:
Also, it's alot harder than just "seeing Shinji upside down" and realizing what's going on, let's not assume everyone is capable of Aizen-level intelligence feats, and even he assumed wrong in his first analysis of the ability.
Except Grimmjow was still Espada level, so I don't see your pointQuote:
Shinji was somewhat overconfident, but it looked like he was going in for the kill when he was going to perform his second attack, whereas Tousen played around alot more. And Kenpachi won't figure Sakanade out as fast as Aizen did, if he can. Plus Kenpachi is primarily CQC so he's going to rely heavily on visual information and reflexes, which is bad for him in this case. Coupled with the fact that Shinji can take care of himself in CQC and his physical abilities should get a nice increase from the mask, I'd give it to Shinji.
So he removes the effects...and pwns Kenpachi? Again, all it takes is an attack to realize that it's on, and we've NEVER seen him rapidly switching it on and off in combat, so to assume he can do otherwise a la Aizen is, in your terms, a hasty generalization.Quote:
It's not intelligence, it's that Shinji freaking explained it because he's a cocky guy. Also, let's not act like Kenpachi is dumb as rocks, he figured out what to do to get out of Tousen's Bankai pretty easily, considering he got attacked ~3 times and didn't take any attack in its entirety outside of the first. Not to mention his counter attacks were getting better, despite only having touch!Quote:
Except that he wasn't an Espada. He was removed from the Espada. Forget what the analysis said, Ichigo apparently had Captain-class reiatsu from the fight with Kenpachi on, that didn't mean he could defeat Bankai captains (or even Kenpachi if he actually fought seriously from the beginning). Apparently Ikkaku could have been a Captain (notice he was approached by Renji, who also has Bankai). He barely beat a Fraccion. Does that mean the Fraccion was Espada-level?Quote:
Grimmjaw was removed from the Espada, thus, he wasn't Espada level. He wasn't even allowed to stay in the Espada to knock another Espada out, so he dropped at least 4 ranks. So I don't see your point.
But back on topic, I don't see shinji capable of injuring kenpachi fatally. Even noitora slashing and piercing him still didn't stop him. So it gives ken more than enough of a chance to figure out sakanade and KO him.
I personally don't see sakanade as that hax of a shikai
Hitsugaya was behind Aizen. http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...4-page-19.html
Then Aizen sees hitsugaya (not upside down) charging at him from the front. Then he notices Shinji swinging his sakanade and realizes that things must be inverted http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...4-page-20.html
True enough, Aizen realized that Hitsugaya was actually behind him, but it was too late and he got stabbed from behind. http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...4-page-21.html (Aizen didn't actually get stabbed due to LOLillusions, but Shinji using sakanade in such a way and the others attacking was all real).
And let's clear this up as well. Someone that has used sight and hearing to fight for hundreds of years will be accustomed to using those senses. When these are all removed, they will also lose whatever instincts they had regarding those senses, and that's part of how Tousen's Bankai works. Most people can't go around fighting blindfolded after fighting with sight, even when having hearing to rely on. Now remove hearing and it gets harder as well. You're going to tell me that Kenpachi wouldn't be able to strike the middle of Shinji (since that's really all that's necessary to negate most of the reversals) before Shinji kills him? Despite Shinji + Mask not being able to kill Grimmjaw in the time he had? Despite him not putting a scratch on Gin, who we know wasn't taking much of anything seriously?
Somewhat overconfident? Explaining your ability to freaking Aizen is more than somewhat overconfident, it's stupid. And again, Kenpachi has little figuring to do since Shinji is cocky! If you're getting that cocky against someone you know is dangerous (and after your (gf?) got cut in half?!?!) At the least, he should've been MUCH more serious against Gin.Quote:
...Hitsugaya was behind him from the beginning, seeing as he attacked from behind and Aizen looked behind him.Quote:
The point at which Aizen messed up was that he was turning around to counter Hitsugaya (which would make Hitsugaya face him), but since Shinji then activated Sakanade, he showed up behind him.
Last edited by UchihaHunter; March 16, 2011 at 01:06 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
I go with Kenpachi in this fight. He is tank and reiatsu moster. Sorry, if people don't like these frases, but still it is a fact. Even without knowing the name of his Zan, hence not being posible to get in poper Shikai he can match Bankai Captain's reiatsu. He is also damn strong physically, hence his actual attacking power is pretty great, even though he is a close range fighter.
On the other hand Shinji is pretty weak overall. I can understand why and for what feats people consider him as the strongest among the Vaizards? He is the weakest physically with Rose and his actual attacking abilities are limited to Cero that he can't spam, cause his mask has a clear limit. He also didn't show any defending abilities, so Ken will just slice him in one blow as he did to Nnoitora when he got serious.
Also I don't by that Shinji's Shikai is hax. It's not his Shikai that is hax. Its people who make his Shikai hax.
Ken managed to overcome Tousen's Shikai, so there won't be any problem for him to overcome Shinji's Shikai in the same way and Shinji isn't physically better than Tousen without a mask and in mask Tousen actually was better than Shinji with mask.
Ken can be hit once by Shinji's sword, but the next time he will grab his hand and the fight will be over.
Up until just now, I was pretty much debating 3 or 4 people on my own. It seems that Shinji has got quite the fan club, so I wouldn't count him out. That would be why I'm still debating this, lol
Re-read the Grimmjow/Shinji fight, see how pathetically outclassed Grimmjow was and why Shinji donned his mask to begin with. Grimmjow survived by reflexively firing his own Cero to dilute the damage from Shinji's.
My argument was never what you claimed it was, so I don't have to show he inflicts more damage than Released Nnoitra, however, I'd oblige you a bit and show you how Shinji's cero does more than Base Ulquiorra's, who's a rank higher than Nnoitra's for comparison. I could also ask you what makes you think Kenny's gonna pwn Shinji, seeing as he couldn't even take out Tousen with a wide open attack.. But I won't
Anyway, point is, Shinji isn't 1-shotting Kenny by any means. He'd take him down after a nice amount of attacks while masked
I never claimed the bolded.Quote:
Also, while it only takes an attack to know your senses are inverted, it takes more to know to what extent. Your attempt at calling me out on a hasty generalization applies to the argument you made below, which is essentially that since Aizen figured it out quickly so could Kenpachi
Kenpachi didn't figure out Tousen's Bankai except the obvious, which was that he lost all his senses. He knew he had touch because he could still feel his sword. He just tanked his way through it by his own reflexes, and when he came to the conclusion of allowing Tousen to stab him to get a hit, he realized he could see if he touched Tousen's bladeQuote:
I dunno what you're trying to prove here. Either way, Kenny's intelligence is a far cry from Aizen's, who didn't even figure out the ability the after Shinji told him a bit about it
Aside from that, there's also the implication that Aizen used Kyoka Suigetsu to get a hit on Shinji during their encounter, even the anime portrayed this as being the case, so again, Aizen isn't a crutch you can use for Kenpachi
I've already proved you're wrong on the point that Grimmjow wasn't "Espada level", otherwise his reiatsu wouldn't have come up as "Espada level" on SS's radar. You're gonna have to try a different routeQuote:
It's a rule that losing an arm kicks you out of the Espada, hence why Yammy had to get his re-attached. Nothing about suddenly becoming weaker than the other Espada
So, as I said, try another route. Telling me to "Forget the analysis" is telling me to deny manga canon in favor of your opinion, I'd rather not
Aizen saw Hitsugaya charging from the front in that scan. Then on the last page, he said to himself: "He's behind me!" realizing that he was really behind him, but it was too late. http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...4-page-21.html
Well, it's also the same people arguing with you although I foresee a flood of votes from people that never post.Quote: