Moderator message by: rikiPlease keep this on topic. Remember that everyone is entitled to their opinions and that you need to respect them. If you disagree with their opinions, please be respectful when you tell them why and don't attack them personally. Thank you!
I don't know what to say...I regret coming here. But I can't keep quite when this whole thing started couz of 'that' comment. Alright as for Capricorn, I've already forgot what he said so I don't hold any grudge against him. It's alright, it's just a manga, we don't have to be so serious. As for kannazuki, I can see what you mean ,and I do understand. (Although I still feel Capricorn was a bit harsh but as I said I'm not really kinda person to hold grudges over such trivial things.) By the way, Can I ask you more question about Allen in PM? You did clarify some things for me in your first post. And as for earthforge, I'm sorry you got involved in all this mess, for some reason it's a bit hostile atmosphere, I can see why a kind person like you would be upset.
Hey! I never said I'm gonna drop couz of him! I just said I found more opinions because of him. I think you guys took it for sarcasm but I was 'really' thanking him.Quote:
What in the world?! I don't know what you're thinking that I'm thinking but I'm not thinking what you're thinking!Quote:
Last edited by CloudStrifeACC; May 02, 2013 at 06:44 AM.
In reference to Capricorn. So what part of his contribution added to it that you should drop the series? At least clarify unless you want to put a blame on him. Cause as far as i know Capricorn loves DGM. So does Earthforge and i do too. Be it for different reasons but non of us want to contribute to someone quitting on DGM. So either your being sarcastic or putting a form of blame on him.Quote:
As for the character i just gave 2 examples of a more single minded character. Both of which are not bad to like btw. There are many things about Zero that i like but he isnt that complex. I like Code Geass a lot and could explain easy why Allen and Zero are far different and have less in common, yet both have similarities. Its not that i think what you think but it would be easier for me to explain more about Allen Walker.
If you look at Allen Walker you need to have facts in line first before analyzing it. And then youll see hes really complex. I could give some examples
-Allen first met Mana as Red, he was rather different and less polite here then later on.
-Allen already had his innocence unknown how he got it. (said to be born with it? but later facts would speak against this or at least make this difficult since Red is not who Allen is)
-He was taken in by Cross Marian knowing who he had inside him and knew that Allen would be gone eventually, also here its unclear if he knew who Allen was prior to meeting Mana.
-Allen gave up his own life to take inside him the 14th-Nea. Btw the inner noah is a different aspect then the outer 1. As can be seen the memories and thus the power of the noah are not the same as the person who it awakens with, it kind of fuses onto them. reference would be Skin Boric. Thus even if he has Nea inside him, the power of the 14th noah belongs to Nea but its possible that Allen could use it without Nea (its a theory).
-Allen reverted his age to that of a kid, hes seen as at least a young adult when in flashback with Nea, who lays defeated.
-The akuma eye that Allen has, it is unclear what it is, he didnt have that at first and it could be a fragment of Mana (akuma form) But then who is the earl? And who was Mana?
All of this makes Allen a lot more complex. He loved his father to extreme extent and view the motto of Mana to keep on going as a life vow. I like this a lot about him and even tho he changed that has never changed. And will be the final part that defines him the most.
I do like Allen. I have a hard time seeing him as a 'flat' character as it has been stated in this forum. For me the question is what makes a character a flat character? So, in class I was thaught that a flat character is one about whom we have little knowledge, who is unimportant to the story and who does not develop much in the further course of the events. Conformity of these facts with Allen? Pretty low, if you ask me (apart from knowing little about the true Allen).
I can understand that some people might say that his development has come to a halt, which I admit is pretty much true but that is only because every direction and possibility Allen can take is unsteady and full of risks.
Allen is in a pinch and can't really go back nor forward. What happens from now on, will also determine how much he is further going to change or not. Saying that he has become a character with no depth is a harsh evaluation.
When I think about a flat character I sadly think about Naruto Uzumaki. Don't get me wrong, I used to like him a lot and adore him but eversince the fight with Nagato, eversince the prophecy and so on, eversince he reconciled with the Kyuubi, I felt like his character has been degradated to the happy-go-lucky everstrong fighter with one only (or some) pecial skill, who is a bragging loudmouth. Why I think that way? Because of the way he acts and talks big. He says he wants to stop the circle of hatred generated by Madara through fights. How does he do that? By fghting him. Du du dum...
But back to our topic: I don't think Allen is a flat character. He has a lot of depth and is trying to find his balance. He wants t throw away Mana's mask and that is hard after having used it as a shield for his unstable feelings for years! It is simply bad luck and timing that DGM has been on hold during an Arc where the protagonist has yet to show his true colors.
That came out the wrong way, my bad. What I actually meant was that I'm just gonna find out about others opinion and then drop out anyway. Meaning I was planning to drop out whether if anyone agrees or disagrees with me. Why? Because DGM Manga isn't 'the fun place I used to know' ,and it hurts even more when Katsura Hoshino keeps changing not only the future events but the past ones too. I mean who could have thought that Allen was playing a charade all along? Atleast I didn't, and it hurts to know that the character I so liked was only an illusion, not even a real thing. And again, I wasn't blaming Capricorn or being sarcastic, I was thanking him for showing a different opinion.Quote:
Same here. It's kinda getting hard to judge his next step, no?Quote:
i love allen but yuu is my favorite and cross is second allen is a great character though
I think thing is...no one knows who he really is
Sometimes I don't know what to think about Allen
Is he Red ?
Is he the Allen who was friends with the 14th?
Is he still wearing the mask of Mana?
We don't know he's full back story and we don't know how much influence apo had on the new Allen we know today
So the question is ...
If the Allen we know is a created personality, a second personality, is he fake?
Did we spend all that time loving a fake?
Does he deserve to exist at all?
We often say there can only be one (read gantz)
Who is Allen and are we to accept all of his different sides in a world that likes it black and white?
I think the real Allenscrap that. The Allen we should focus on is the one we are presented with from the beginning, he had amnesia, loss of memory and tries desperately to find out the truth about himself but also Mana. He does follow the credo of the family to keep on going and still questions if Mana was interested in him or just nea. But after all Allen is himself. He has to battle his own old identity now as well as Nea. We will see where it leads and ofc its confusing but thats also due to the slow releases.
I'm totally with ca12nag3 on this. Allen's past (which we don't really know much of anything about anyway, so I'm leaving Apo out for now although I also suspect he may have tampered with Allen's memories) may be a "lie" but HE, himself isn't, you know? He's not just a Mana clone, he's not just a brawler, he's not just a card shark, he's not just Red, he's not the guy Nea considered a friend (yet? lol), etc. Whatever truly happened in the past, he's still the person we knew at the start, with all these other sides to him, PLUS as he's realized his weaknesses, he's being growing and changing all along. I highly, highly doubt that once he gets his proper memories back he's suddenly going to "revert" and drop all the lessons and experience he's gained from possessing all of those aspects of who we know him to be.
I really like Allen primarily because before what he portrayed as his 'character' at the start was rather empty. It wasn't very real(just my opinion). While I do love it sometimes when a character is acting cool sometimes you really start to love the character when he realizes what he or she really wants and feels compared to the start when you don't really know much about what he is fundamentally. (Crown Clown Arc)
If I were to put together everything I said I think I would probably say I prefer Allen now as compared to before because he's stronger now ( mentally ) compared to before. And how I not? Even now I feel that the only reason to sorta hate(well not hate per say exactly) regarding him would be why he isn't being even more true to himself (he's showing empathy to the 14th and judging him for what he has done instead of as a Noah/enemy, but what does he himself want to do about him? ).
I think as the series continues we will really get to see the results of his growth as a character when he finally decides what to do about the 14th. Right now he seems to be recognizing the significance of grey areas as he realizes that Noah are sometimes not as evil as they seem and the Order is not as innocent as it appears. That's all I can say right now about Allen though.
Last edited by Crown Clown; June 07, 2014 at 04:07 AM.
I am so confused about how I am supposed to feel about Allen. I love Allen as a character. I love that he was happy and perky even when the world was falling down around him (and even when it did feel like a mask sometimes) and that he sometimes made "stupid" decisions for the sake of others. I was sold the second he let Lala finish her song. I also like the character development he has shown. He is getting older, recognizing some things he didn't before...not to mention struggling with the Order and Nea awakening, of course.
However, the new chapters have left me a bit confused and bummed out to be honest. It feels like that Allen never existed or, if he did, he is going to be swallowed whole and we will be left with Mana/Allen or Nea/Allen and not just Allen who happens to be hosting a Noah. Not sure if that makes sense. Part of me knows/thinks that "Allen" will remain (the character we know), but it was a bad place for a hiatus at least to me. Obviously couldn't be helped, but still feeling a bit confused and sad about Allen right now. I know I am about 1-2 years late on this, but I actually just completed reading the last 10 chapters so I have a lot of thoughts!
It's kind of a big no-no to endear all (or at least the vast majority of) the fans to the hero and then suddenly pull the rug out from under us, along with all his development by completely changing his character. No matter what, whatever changes happen will always be reasonable additions/adjustments to who he already is, not sudden 180º turns.
Spoiler: comparison for those who saw the 'K Project' anime, which seems to have had some aspects inspired by DGM... show