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Lee did open a gate in his fight with Kimmi he had no problems what so ever blocking the primary lotus
Raikage-I don't even remember where it was stated that he is immune to genjutsu but Susano would make short work of him..
Kakuzu-Well i know he is a pupet but as long as he has senses there is a good chanse that he will not be immune to it. Also even if he is Susano would rip him apart.
Deidara-I don't belive he can take Itachi's version and even if he can Amaterasu and Susano would be to much for him.
Gai-is irrelevant as he can't do shit to Susano, especialy Itachi's version.
Danzo-already lost to Sasuke, Itachi would blow him apart.
Gara- He can defent himself vs Amaterasu but not genjutsu. Also i got no idea what he can do when Sasuke puts up Susano and starts spamming arrows. Those things are so fast that Kakashi had to use Kamui to save his but. If Gara ends up with Itachi he dies in 3 seconds flat.
Orochimaru- He already got owned by Itachi like he was a little kid.
Sry but i see none in that list that can take the brothers.
I just find it ridiculous that the mods are nerfing Nagato but leaving the Uchihas the ability to 1 shot 90% of the participants ... How is that fair? So lets nerf Nagato but leave Itachi to dominate? Right ...
If Nagato ends up fighting Itachi he is dead in 3 seconds. Right that is fair. He would have a chanse with Sasuke but really small. Even Sasuke can completly incapacitate someone with his sharingan genjutsu. So yes let's nerf Nagato to hell so the Uchihas can walk all over him. Because make no mistake take Pein from him and he is nerfed to hell. Expecialy fighting a Uchiha in 1vs1. Something tells me the mods want the Uchiha to win this.
I disagree, Neji won with his intelligence and skills. It's about matchups here: if Kimimaro uses chakra to remove bones and make them hard, then Neji's style can take away his power by altering the chakra path.
Oh. First gate only?
xXan, you're such an Uchiha hater, based on your post... and you overrate Pain/Nagato as well. Raikage and Killerbee gave Sasuke a hard time, so I don't see how he can get through so easily or oneshot anyone. Itachi would have problems as well. You don't mind Six Paths of Pain but you mind Uchiha and their MS? Makes no sense. But you are admitting Nagato is nothing without his six other bodies. :\
Most of your reasons why Itachi and Sasuke would beat the fighters is, honestly, horrible. You're basically nerfing others down to make Sasuke and Itachi look more powerful in order to get Nagato to be able to use six of his bodies, which would be waaaay worse than what Itachi and Sasuke have. Nagato is more fair than Six Paths.
I am an Uchiha hater when i state they can 1 shot 90% of people. How does that make sense to you? I just stated it is not fair to nerf Nagato to hell but leave Itachi as he is when he can 1 shot 90% of people.Quote:
He only gave Sasuke a hard time because Sasuke only had a primitive form of Susano. With Susano up Sasuke can even put Amaterasu on it and make any and all attacks that Raikage can use irrelevant.
Itachi having problems when nothing Raikage can do will get pass the shield and Itachi can 1 shot him with his sword? Righ... Raikage could dodge it for some time but that is it.
Sasuke in that fight was a complete moron. He whent in and never even activated his sharingan. He changed from back then. Now not only will he activate sharingan off the bat he will also go in Susano off the bat. If Bee uses his normal form with tails then all Sasuke needs is Susano. If Bee goes fully 8 tails all Sasuke has to do is say Amaterasu. In this fight Sasuke actualy has Susano... back then not so much....
Itachi having problem when he can 1 shot this guy the moment the fight starts? Right ...
if you would actualy read my post you would understant i have no problems with MS in itself. I have problems when you nerf Nagato because aparently he can own most of the people but leave the Uchihas as they are now when they can 1 shot 90% of people in this Tournament. It is about making this fair and nothing about MS. Try reading my post more carefully next time.Quote:
So instead to try to provide reasons as to why i am wrong in x, y, z case you post this? I gave you reasons and all you do is state they are horirible and provind nothing as proof. If mine are horrible what are yours when you got nothing to back them up.Quote:
Nagato would have 0% chanse vs Itachi for instance. Again you whant to prove me wrong? Then prove me with facts.
Last edited by xXan; March 28, 2011 at 03:21 AM.
- Ee's reflexes would allow him to react and move before a genjutsu could directly be used. His speed would allow him to avoid the majority of techniques used against him.
- Kakuzu has four mindless helpers which wouldn't be effected by genjutsu and would probably interfere with his chakra to counter any genjutsu he was under. Even if he was effected by one, he would be instantly revived with the sacrifice of one of his helpers.
- Deidara has already shown he can block out genjutsu with his training and the fact that he's a long distances fighter would counter most fighters. Not just that, but his cellular bombs would be impossible for anyone to beat without the exact set of skills needed to counter them.
- Gai is basically the same as Ee, with him avoiding things with his great speed.
- Danzo has multiple Izanagi, which would be hard to deal with regardless.
- Gaara can use his sand shield to get around and avoid being hit directly. Plus his third eye would probably be quite useful here.
- Orochimaru can not only regenerate from most damage, but his poisonous blood and the fact that he can exist as just chakra makes him an incredible opponent.
@ Rikudou King
That is the hole point. Sasuke's version would need 3 days to do the damage Itachi would do instantly. Point is the 8 tails would have the time to pull Bee out of Sasuke's genjutsu before any real damage would be done. Itachi's version would kill Bee before the 8 tails could save him.Quote:
That is the power of Itachi's version. It hits instantly before any defence can be made. 8 tails can't save him in any way. Also as stated by kakashi it can kill. So this part of your post goes out the window.
Raikage can't move faster then genjutsu. Do you see Raikage moving faster then the speed of light? because that is how fast light travel from Itachi to Raikage ayes... Again goes out the window. Also he can't do anything vs Susano.Quote:
This si true but irrelevant because ... Well Susano.Quote:
Sry but he never showed he can block MS genjutsu. Hell Itachi never even used MS genjutsu on him.Quote:
Also Madara can counter, Itachi can, Sasuke can. All the Uchihas can.
Also Deidera is not fast enough to dodge Amaterasu in his face trick.
And he will be just as dead as Raikage.Quote:
Danzo has already lost to Sasuke and if that genjutsu would have been Itachi's then Danzo would be dead now because at that instance his Izanagi was offline...Quote:
Susano, genjutsu = dead.Quote:
Itachi stomps him and he already has. Madara can just warp his but before he can do anything.Quote:
ok then let's find one that can beat Itachi ok?Quote:
Susano can go up faster then a lighting bolt hits the ground .. Do you know how fast that is? Susano would go up before those guys can do anything.Quote:
Onoki never showed ANY instant kill techs like the brothers. Hell Madara would completly stomp his but here. Amaterasu would also be an easy win.Quote:
This is irrelevant as we where talking about the Uchihas and the Uchihas would demolish your entire list.Quote:
So now Itachi/Madara/Sasuke can instantly kill him the moment the fight starts? Genjutsu or warping and he can't do shit. Now only that but Nagato compared to this guys (expecialy Itachi and Madara) is stupid and has close to 0 feats in taijutsu AND he has a LONG time since he had any fight but his fight as Pein. Nagato specialized himself in using that tech...Quote:
Again tell me who can take down the Uchihas? Its about instant win for Itachi expecialy vs 90%++++ of these guys with one of his techs.
The hole problem here is not that the Uchiha's are OP but why nerf Pein because he was just as OP (perhaps more but who cares).
I just hate to see the most powerfull caracter in this manga (that we got to see) go down instantly to some peeps because of this nerf.
You know i wonder how many peeps would say something if the Uchihas would be unable to use there MS jutsus.
Last edited by xXan; March 28, 2011 at 05:55 AM.
Do you think match-ups will influence these nerfs? Maybe Nagato won't face MS jutsu at all...who do you think he should fight with in order to avoid the disadvantages you mentioned? Or in a case where Nagato doesn't face MS, are the disadvantages still that "outrageous"?
Last edited by benelori; March 28, 2011 at 08:16 AM.
If Gai would use the 7 gates in a fight, he would be incapacitated in the next fight and would have to forfeit.
It make sense if you see this as a "real tournament".
If we're simply taking those fights 1 by 1, without considering the previous ones, or the next ones, then I agree that he should be able to get to 7-gate since that won't kill him.
but the same would also applie for the others, of course using the gates would make Gai and Rock less extremely vunerable but the same would happen if for example Sasuke used amateratsu and susano, he would also be more tired and by that way more weak
its much more simple to think only in the current battle and not carry about the previous ones cuz if we dont do so, this is going to be alot more difficult and confusing
and about some people think that the Uchihas are going to win this, i dont think it will be that easy for them, in the top tier theres alot of very strong characters that i think that can take at least Sasuke !
But i also hope that when this tourney starts we already have more info about for example Sasuke and Naruto
I will not let neither Minato or Naruto being defeated easily by an Uchiha
Now Nagato would defenetly end up eventualy fighting Itachi/Madara/Sasuke. This guys are going to the finals for sure.
If you realy want to remove things that allow people to 1 shot other people we defenetly need to look in things like.
Tsukuyomi Itachi's version.
Aside the uchihas and probably that pupet guy (forgot his name) people would be instantly killed. Considering people have no knoladge on what Itachi can do and if he even has MS (rules) they are going to end up looking in his eyes and that would mean instant defeat. Perhaps you guys need to look into other things to? Or perhaps give participants information when they are facing people that can 1 shot you with Amaterasu or Tsukuyomi to even give them a fighting chanse?
Hell probably 60% of that list would go down from the first Amaterasu (if not more). There is a big chanse Raikage would be hit to because NOW going with the rules he has no idea what Amaterasu is or how to evade it.
Susano, Itachi's version.
I can't w8 for people (like Orochimaru) to try to tank the damage because they got no idea what it does.
Nerf Nagato? Sure no problem but look at other people to. That is all i am asking. Also there are probably some other OP techs to but i only looked at the Uchihas who aparently are going to completly dominate the Tournament. Pein would probably be the only one who could defeat them.
Now don't get me wrong i know you guys are going to have a hard time balancing this. I am just stating my opinions on some matters. I am still going to participate whatever you dudes chose to do.
@ THM Nindo
Heh? This makes no sense. Fatigue, chakra depletion or injuries are not going to get carrier from fight to fight. How are you even going to keep count of who was injured in the last fight?Quote:
Anywhay is irrelevant now because Gai can use 7 gates, they changed the rules.
Naruto has no defence vs genjutsu but his clones. Now going sage mode or rikudo mode means he can not use clones or a very limited number of them. Any of the Uchihas are master of genjutsu so they will get him with one. Naruto as long as he does not have some defence vs genjutsu can't take down any Uchiha. Hell in a random fight here he can't even USE SAGE MODE.
Last edited by xXan; March 28, 2011 at 09:17 AM.
for what has him the 9 tails ????
I see...it's no problem to address these issues, it's the reason why we created this thread in the first place
Itachi's Tsukuyomi...there are actually a number of people who can probably tank the damage dealt by Tsukuyomi, and of course it is safe to assume that Itachi is not the blood-lust type, and he always goes easy on his opponents with his Tsukuyomi, or at least easier than the potential of that jutsu...we can argue about plot no jutsu or whatever, but Kakashi managed to talk after he got hit, and Gai for example can fight without looking in his eyes...and Itachi never killed with the jutsu in the manga either...
Amaterasu...that is indeed a big jutsu, but Kawarimi no jutsu is really perfect, as demonstrated, or just high speed...
Susanoo...this is the biggest trouble of all, and Itachi's version is kinda the ultimate technique...
But there's also the extreme fatigue these techniques give to the user...one can always argue if Itachi's opponent can bring the battle to such a length where there's the risk of stamina/chakra depletion and extreme pain...especially when Susanoo is used...not anyone is dumb like Oro to go tank a blade(crying)...
Unfortunately this is what Kishi offered us...
Now whether is fair to nerf Nagato in such a way or not...Nagato's jutsu is the best counter for the Uchiha, but it's extremely unfair towards all the other, and I dare say against the Uchiha as well...
Because the jutsus biggest strength is the secret behind it...one needs to uncover the secret, and in the same time battle six bodies...we considered that this is too much even for the Uchiha...
The best way to counter these unbalanced situations however is how the match-ups will be created...there's the possibility that nagato won't even reach to fight the Uchiha, or maybe Itachi won't reach the semis...there are lots of unpredictable situations, and we need to consider fandom as well...because even if the discussions go one way, the votes can go in a totally different one...of course in Itachi's case, the fandom is on his side...
I understand what you mean about giving somebody the ability to one-shot and take it away from the other...but are we really taking away Pein's ability to oneshot? there's chibaku tensei for example...
My opinion is still this, and I will say this again...the scenario of a one-shot will depend on the matches and opponents...so in the end if the opponent doesn't allow to be one-shotted, then in the big picture it doesn't really matter if we allow 6 pains or not, or MS...
I really think Nagato is being underestimated here. He has a darn good offensive arsenal in Shinra Tensei and Chibaku Tensei and awesome defensive techniques in Shinra Tensei and ninjutsu absorption. Really, what would Itachi do even with Susano'o against Chibaku Tensei? He would be dragged up, and I bet all my coin on Nagato's stamina for holding Chibaku Tensei to outlast Itachi's when Susano'o even hurts like hell to use. Additionally Itachi has never rushed a fight, he is much like Kakashi, he does things efficient and only does what's necessary.
Let's say the battle starts. A plausible scenario would be Itachi getting into a battle stance or making some hand seals while Nagato raises his hand and BOM, a powerful Shinra Tensei hits in Itachi's face. Take in mind that Shinra Tensei can be a knockout technique unless you have durability of Naruto's caliber while in Sage Mode. It's plausible that Nagato would use Shinra Tensei after 1 second, while it's doubtful that Itachi would use Susano'o after 1 second. In any regard even if Itachi does use Susano'o, it's not like it's unbeatable or impossible to dodge. Chibaku Tensei and problem solved in my honest opinion.
Another match up. Minato vs Itachi. The battle starts and Minato quickly throws a kunai, Itachi dodges it only to see Minato appear besides him and rampaging him with a Rasengan. Plausible? Maybe Itachi would manage to activate Susano'o quickly enough, maybe he wouldn't. The battle isn't as decided as you make it out to be. I wouldn't vote Itachi against any of the real top dogs without seriously thinking through every scenario. You also have to take in mind that Itachi is nearly blind and is obviously reduced because of that. His condition is the same as before his death, his eyesight just won't get worse and he won't cough up blood or fall over and die in combat.
I'm not saying you are wrong about everything, but I think you are overestimating Susano'o here. It's awesome and one of the best techniques out there, but Itachi can't use it for that long in it's full version, and only an idiot (Orochimaru) would try to tank a hit from such a giant sword of flaming doom.
You also have to take in mind that while you may vote for Itachi, the votes are open for everyone. It's not just the posters that will vote, but even the members that casually step into the section and barely post here. When for instance a popular character like Naruto fights someone like Itachi, there's a good chance a random guy would vote Naruto just because he likes him more.