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The Espada win both scenarios
The Espada win scenario #1, but not scenario #2
Soul Society win both scenarios
I don't particularly see why I shouldn't at least believe that base Lisa is more powerful than base Byakuya. Those who tend to cite Byakuya's great points also cite the fact that he trained with Yoruichi in Shunpo. What they left out was that Yoruichi stopped training him when he was a teenager, at which point Lisa Yadomaru was already Shunsui's Vice Captain. So Lisa's actually been around for longer. To top it off she has her mask to increase her base stats even more, so yes, that's something I'd consider.
For example, Ichigo blitzed Byakuya, yet after the SS arc, Sealed Grimmjow beats the tar out of him with his bare hands, laughing all the way, and commenting on how he only has "average speed". Things with Ichigo just don't add up properly.
---------- Post added at 11:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:35 AM ----------
And yes, Byakuya was not trained by Yoroichi for a particularly long time as far as we can tell, , but that doesn't change the fact that he's shown a lot of impressive Shunpo either way. He's also extremely proficient with Kido, and is probably the highest captain in terms of the variety in the feats he has with it. Honestly, I think he's easily one of the most powerful Sealed captains.
The mask makes a difference, but I don't believe she'll be blitzing him, she may become physically more powerful, but that's never been Byakuya's forte anyway.
Last edited by Takahashi; May 31, 2011 at 12:41 PM.
Hitsugaya uses HH while Byakuya protects SS: espadas 3 and below and intantly killed.
Then all the captains wtfpwn the remaining espadas.
Ichigo getting owned by grim back then might be because he was trying to hold back as he did not have control over his hollow at the time. Once he obtained the mask he dominated grimmjow(albeit one arm) pretty badly. I do not see why the ichigo after he mastered his mask is worse than SS ichigo. Is it really ridiculous to think that grimmjow and ulquiorra are more powerful than byakuya? Especially considering if Aizen was the one who planned which people ichigo would fight like he claimed, why would he choose weaker opponents if he planned Ichigo to be getting stronger? And was SS ichigo really that amazing?the first time he blitzed byakuya he wasnt expecting it, second time byakuya was surprised ichigo overcame his bankai petals. Ichigo did overcome SKY's base form but he clearly struggled against senkei (ok he was slowing down but byakuya was also massively holding back by not using all of his swords), he had to use his hollow who unsurprisingly overpowered byakuya(who by now had no defensive measures) in such a confined space, not to mention he also had the element of surprise. He then weakened byakuya sufficiently to destroy his zanpakuto. Byakuya still could have fought on with kido but he chose not to.
---------- Post added at 12:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:39 PM ----------
HH won't be killing ulquiorra, the top 5(including yammy) is still enough to take down SS.
Last edited by HaouLelouch; May 31, 2011 at 01:53 PM.
I have to respectfully disagree with the top 5 being capable enough to take on the captains.
There's too much to account for in a match like this. 5 espada aren't beating 8/9 captains.
Now, if we talk about Starrk's wolves, let's see how the captains avoid being blown up repeatedly.
Trapped in Ice may not mean killed at first, but if you can't get free straight away then you're trapped long enough for the other guys to be defeated.
I think the debate about SS Ichigo vs Modern Ichigo is summarised by the Byakuya/Ichigo fight, the Byakuya/Yammy fight, and the Yammy/Ichigo (second fight). Yammy vs Ichigo seemed fairly even, Ichigo winning with his mask and drawing without. Byakuya fought Yammy in a stronger, resuccion form, and made it look easy. Hence me thinking SS has got stronger since Ichigo's invasion...
But SS honestly Stomps. Everybody Espada has a match on the SS team. And with the vast speed of Shunsui, Soifon and even Byakuya, then the Espada won't be able to pick fights...
Yeah Soifon's fast, look at her effortlessly escaping respira *sarcasm*.
also stark has blitzed shunsui/disappeared from his sight on numerous occasions, whereas the opposite never happened. Shunsui had to use backstabs and distractions to land hits on stark.
Yup. Although for the record, I don't think being caught by Respira means you're slow :P I don't think Stark could escape it either, nor Yama for that matter.Quote:
I thought it was established that Soi Fon's speed isn't that great. Ah well, just my take on the matter of clones:
Have you ever seen the clones argument? Don't try to write it off as a hypothesis. While it may be that, clones being an actual speed feat isn't viable or possible at all. Lemme show ya:
I'm not downplaying Soi Fon, I'm downplaying the generation of clones. Face it, it's not a direct speed feat, it's only attestable to skill, further emphasized by the fact that clone generation is a technique and even by Aizen as a parlor trick and not referenced as a speed feat. By the way...
If clones is a byproduct of speed and not a technique then Dangai Ichigo should be generating tons of clones, as should Aizen, Isshin, Urahara, Stark, Shunsui, Yamamoto, not to mention a whole cast of upper tier characters in speed. Is Byakuya the third fastest character in Bleach?
Not to mention, that being in fifteen places at once and generating tangible clones without some illusory technique is frankly impossible even by Bleach standards. Explained, below.
And that Respira didn't catch a fully mobilized Soi Fon either...Originally Posted by CeroOskuraz
What? No, Soi Fon's known for her speed, but in no way does it make her the fastest. Did you two even read the clones argument I showed you?
Omaeda also said a couple of other things, which was that Soi Fon was fighting under the limiter when she was getting beaten around by base Barragan, "Your ass is mine!" when he used Kido against Barragan, and that "Aizen didn't have shit on Barragan" when it was very clear given the flashback that Aizen had a lot of shit over Barragan.
So, all of those statements were false, and so is the one about Soi Fon's speed. Her getting caught by Respira is more or less proof that she's not the fastest, given that Hachi was able to bullet time Respira
Hachi was a substantial distance away, just because he put up a barrier doesn't mean Respira is somehow slow.Quote: