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Originally Posted by Shaunlim
Well you have to remember that Genjutsu is broken by disrupting the chakra of the victim. The bigger the chakra reserve, the more it'll take to disrupt it's chakra. Before you imply it takes more chakra to put a larger object into Genjutsu, remember that Sasuke took control of the largest boss summon in the series WHILE he had no chakra left, so it's child's play for him.
As for breaking concentration, he has shown the ability to move his feet. I don't think for a second you're gonna name any offensive techniques in his repertoire he can do without his hands besides maybe his hair jutsu and that one little barrier he made (that doesn't block attacks mind you). Jiraiya's as good as dead on top of his summon thanks to Amaterasu or Chidori Eisou.
Originally Posted by jdw
He was also referring to one Genjutsu in particular: Tsukiyomi. You didn't differentiate. You said:
Originally Posted by jdw
Based off of that one specific incident, despite Sasuke displaying multiple feats of Genjtusu prowess? One-shotting B and C, paralyzing Orochimaru, reversing his body snatch jutsu, and controlling Manda? These incidents make his Genjutsu weak? Also, let's not assume Madara saw the fights between Sasuke and Bee, C, or Orochimaru. His claim was based on one incident alone.
The thing is that jiraya is strong but was already pass by his student naruto,Naruto could control Senjutsu even better than his sensei and now naruto can control the kyuubi power(the next generation pass the previous generation) and sasuke is in the same situacion each time that sasuke fight someone since itachi's fight,sasuke become even stronger than before that remind me of saiyans.lol but if sasuke fight jiraya with his next EMS, sasuke got the upperhand in this fight.
jiraya is dead and sasuke is alive,sasuke keep becoming stronger in the manga while jiraya will stay in the same level of power because he was kill that is another point for sasuke..
@ninjabot: Chidori Eisou, while dangeous, does not have exceptional range. Sasuke might be better off with senbon if Jiraiya is the target and he is atop Bunta, Hiro, or Ken.
Manga places Eisou at about 5 meters. Senbon should be able to go a little more than that at least.Originally Posted by Databook III
As for all this Amaterasu sniping at a distance. False. Databook puts it as close range, so it isn't like he can snipe whatever his eyes can see.
Sasuke, after using Amaterasu, was able to quickly react to Ee's attack and wrap his Susanoo with the black flames.
Here, he was capable of reacting to Danzou's sneak attack after an Amaterasu.
Here, Sasuke casts Tsukuyomi dashes in for a backstab.
Here, Sasuke uses Tsukuyomi while attacking simultaneously.
Sasuke getting nailed by Bee probably has more to do with him taking his guard down (as Bee faceplants into ground) than any ill-effects MS techs may have.
As for Amaterasu range, the databook is probably wrong here. I'm too lazy to fetch the links, but just look at anytime Amaterasu is used. The distance have all been pretty good. Especially the one Sasuke used against Bee and the one Itachi used on Sasuke/forest. Given Sasuke's speed and the way he always puts pressure on his opponents, I don't see Jiraiya creating that much distance between them.
Madara's quote about Sasuke's genjutsu being weak could have been taken out of context as they were referencing Itachi's Tsukuyomi earlier. Plus, being weak by Madara's standards can mean a whole different thing. Regardless, Sasuke's genjutsu have succeeded on Bee (though Hachibi freed him), Orochimaru, Shi, and Danzou. There is no reason to suspect Jiraiya being more capable of any of them against genjutsu, especially the latter 3 who either possessed the sharingan or were very proficient genjutsu users.
Last edited by chilibun; June 25, 2011 at 12:19 PM.
It is easy to call the databook wrong and then depend on other people to either take your word for it or do your homework. Madara said Sasuke's Tsukuyomi was a small, weak genjutsu, but that it was effective because of the timing/proper use. What more context do we need really? The jutsu was weak but Sasuke still earned praise for using it wisely.
5 meters is not a short distance by any means, and Senbon doesn't have the stopping power that Eisou does, hence Eisou. By paralyzing his summon he can't flee the Chidori Eisou, and God Realm has shown us the ease at which someone that doesn't even have a Sharingan can dodge Bunta's melee strikes. Hell, he woudn't even need to get up to his shoulder to decapitate him. http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v40/c367/5.htmlOriginally Posted by jdw
Originally Posted by jdw
No it's not, it's just one of the many instances where the databook contradicts what we've seen in the manga. I mean, if you can prove Sasuke loses sight of his target when they're farther than a few feet away from him I might accept range as a setback to Amaterasu. Until then we've got instances where Itachi's Amaterasu misses Sasuke and flies all the way across the rooftop of the Uchiha hideout and then futher out to the woods around the area.
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v42/c389/15.html Bottom right scan shows how big the hideout is.
These scans show you how far, and how fast Amaterasu flew. Now ask yourself: is Amaterasu short range? How "close range" were those trees?
As for the Genjutsu comment, I thought you were using the weak Tsukiyomi as proof that the other Genjutsu wouldn't one-shot Jiraiya.
Even if the flame moves on beyond a short distance, it could reduce the accuracy/sniping effect. It is like if someone can accurately throw a ball 100 feet, it may just roll along inaccurately after that due to the force, etc. Amaterasu is a close range jutsu IMO.
Originally Posted by jdw
Well, fortunately for Sasuke Bunta, Ken, and Hiro are all big enough that he needn't "snipe" anyone. Any lapse in accuracy is more than made up by the fact that his target is more than 100 times the size of the targets he usually attempts to hit, and the fact that he can "trace" the target by simply following them with his eyes. This is all assuming Sasuke isn't already countering a dodged weapon from a giant summon or already paralyzing one with Genjutsu.
You have to make your own case like everyone else. You are not a "special or unique snowflake."
---------- Post added at 02:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 PM ----------
Ever since Sasuke has gained MS it seems that people want to call every genjutsu he has used since then Tsukuyomi. I really don't think that's the case. In fact, I don't think that the genjutsu he used to defeat Danzo was Tsukuyomi at all. Why would he cast a "chakra-coster" like Tsukuyomi, if the genjutsu was intended to be so weak that it would go unnoticed? That type of genjutsu actually leans towards Sasuke's advantage (IMHO).
In the end Sasuke is more proficient at base Sharingan genjutsu than he is at Tsukuyomi.
Well, just saying the DB is wrong and walking away isn't very helpful, IMO.
Sorry if you feel like I am being condescending, but it's annoying to be told my argument is wrong by someone unwilling to produce proof, my bad.
sasuke's tsutuyomi isn't nothing close to itachi and for someone as jiraya that is a sannin and had unbeliavable experient in battlefield, he will break sasuke's genjutsu and even if jiraya isn't good a genjutsu that doesn't mean that he can't protect and break genjutsu users and about amaterasu, you just have to be carefull to don't touch it or avoided it as raikage did with sasuke, a shinobi with experient will know that he has to just avoid that jutsu and keep his distant when sasuke used amaterasu. if someone tell me that raikage got hit by amaterasu that isn't the case,raikage knew that he was going to loose his arm when he was going to hit sasuke but he didn't care to loose an arm to obtained his goal but a the end he lost his arm for nothing..sasuke will win the fight eventually but i can't believe that some of you guys, treat jiraya as nothing.
p.s these techniques are Tsukuyomi,Kagutsuchi,Izanagi,Amaterasu,Tensha Fuuin • Amaterasu are Range: Close (0m ~ 5m) and the only ones far than 5m are Susanoo,Kamui Range: Close (0m ~ 5m), Mid (5m ~ 10m), Far (10m+)
Last edited by EMS; June 25, 2011 at 01:52 PM.