The original discussion started on the Ophelia thread.
But basicly here's my question. In chapter 92 we seen Clare dying first on her first attempt when she fought the dreamt version Rafaela then won the second time when she used the quicksword. Is the dreamt version as powerful as the real Rafaela in flesh and blood, or is she a depowered verson made using Clare's memory. What would of happend if Clare fought Rafaela in the real world? Who would prevail. Lets hear it!
My personal openion is that the illusion of Rafaela was based on Clare's memory and lack the skills, techniques and knowledge the real Rafaela had. Since Clare never fought Rafaela in the real world and wouldn't know of her powers to incoporate it in to the Rafaela illusion. I also noticed inconsistencies inside the dream, things that should be there but wasn't, stuff that can't happen but did.
First thing is, Clare's right arm look exactly the same as Clare's left arm. It wasn't covered by straps. In the real world Rafaela would of noticed Clare's right arm was from Ilena right away, since before Clare start wearing her new Ghost uniforms, her right arm was always very noticeably diffrent then her left. I also think Rafaela would of been able to sense that it was Ilena's right arm just because Rafaela was extremely good at sensing yoki.
Second, I noticed in chapter 92. Rafaela's sword actually broked in to at least two pieces, when the quicksword sliced her up. A claymore was suppose to be indestructable, never getting a chipped or known to break the last time I checked.
I think if Rafaela would of fought Clare in the real world.... Clare would of died because Rafaela wouldn't and couldn't give her the second chance unlike in the dream.
Last edited by Khorr; August 15, 2011 at 12:29 PM.
Like I mentioned here, I believe that the conscious was a combination of both Rafaela's and Clarie's mind. Claire subconsciously recognized it as Rafaela's mind and gave it an appearance, but Rafaela's mind gave it "depth" so to speak. It was an "imprint' of how strong she knew she was and how she fought, considering it was her part of the memory.Quote:
I have never noticed the details of Irene's arm to notice the difference between it and Claire's left arm, but I would assume that after seven years of using it, she and it would have adapted to each other. That being said, if it was Pre-Ghost Claire, Rafaela would have noticed the difference right away. But if Rafaela is fighting Ghost Claire, it may take more time to actually notice something strange or foreign in the arm. I do agree however, that Rafaela would not have hesitated in a fight in the real world, though I don't know who would win.
(the Illusion of) "Rafaela" is no more Rafaela than (the Illusion of) "Hilda" is Hilda, lol.
"Hilda" was the TAIT, as AWAKENED Hilda IS LONG DEAD
"Rafaela" was the Awakening Destroyer from the *CHAIN-HANGING HALF-MERGED BODIES OF R+DEAD L FROM THE CASTLE CEILING, MEANING INSIDE OF THE CASTLE*
Rafaela was as powerful as Luciela, and Clare herself said that Riful would tear herself (Clare) to pieces, so in other words:
Clare has to be as powerful as a rank 1, like Luciela, in order to have a chance against Rafaela, and Clare herself tells us that she is NOT at a rank 1's power level yet, unless she means in her NON-YR state or NON-Partially Awakened state, lol.
Also, don't forget that Irene herself said Rafaela would have pwned her even if she had both arms still, so unless Clare's now more powerful than Irene, Rafaela would pwn Clare.
here are some of my notes/files/posts/papers about Rafaela:
(some of these are quite old, lol)
---------- Post added at 05:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:11 PM ----------
1. Clare's mind + Destroyer's mind, made the Yoki Synchronization with each other (Clare+Teresa and Rafaela+Destroyer).
2. The Destroyer uses "Yoki Compulsion Ability" to force Clare to go to it, as Clare wanted to go back outside to save Yuma and cynthia from Riful+Dauf, lol.
3. The Destroyer used its "Mental Manpilation Ability" (same as Raftela's as she used against Miria) on Clare, but it could only gather bits and pieces from Rafaela's and Clare's minds, as pointed out by Khorr there's a lot of signifant inaccuracies in the "dream world").
4. (the Illusion of) "Rafaela" is fought over by Rafaela's mind and the Destroyer's mind, as they use "her" to "speak" to Clare's mind. You can see the differences.
5. The only way I can explain Clare's beheading not being her death, is that Clare's own mind (or Rafaela's mind helped Clare) imagined what would happen if she allowed herself to be killed, it wasn't actually happening in the "dream world", as she should be dead then, lol.
6. Clare's QS on "Rafaela" either failed to slice up the Awakening Destroyer, or it simply broke the Destroyer's mental control, allowing Clare to break free mentally from it, possibly symbolized by the breaking of "Rafaela's" (the Destroyer's) "claymore sword".
I can go further, into more of my thoughts, but right now I'm tired, and this is good enough for now. If you want more of my thoughts or have questions/challenges, whatever, feel free to ask me, and I'll respond to whatever you want I'm just tired right now to add anything more.
About Irene's arm:
it's actually INcompatable with Clare, as if you look at Partially Awakened Clare (both against Rigardo and again against Priscilla - I think - need to go back and check PA Clare against Priscilla as I'm not certain/wasn't paying attention), Clare's own left side is very different than Irene's right side, hehe
Clare's own (upper) left side:
1. the (shoulder) Huge Blade Arms looks like (demon) FLESH
2. If or before her arm became/split into the Huge Blade Arms, it first was a Huge Claw of Death (similar to Awakened Ophelia's hands).
(I need to go back and see if Clare keeps her left Huge Claw of Death arm or if it disappears when she goes into Huge Blade Arms mode, hehe)
Clare's Irene's (upper) right side:
1. the (shoulder) Huge Blade Arms looks like diamond-like or cellulose-like (plant/leaf-like)
2. the arm, only has smaller diamond-like or cellulose-like (plant/leaf-like) blades coming out of it, instead of Awakening as part of the Huge Blade Arms, the arm itself doesn't Awaken, and she continues to hold her sword with it.
Clare's Lower body:
strange hoof/hooved horse/bovine like legs, similar somewhat to Isley's....
no idea where/why (not in terms of needing their speed as that's "why", human child Clare realized she needed speed to defeat Priscilla, and that same need for speed was also needed against Rigardo, hehe) these came from... lol
ya, one of the few animals we've seen (at least in the anime anyways, I can't remember if Raki+Priscilla+Isley were riding the horses in the manga or not) were horses, and so Clare can be like... what's fast... a horse... okay I'll Awaken horse legs...
but still.. this isn't good enough.... for how/why/where she deicided to Awaken her horse/hoof/hooved/bovine legs... as she had never seen Centaur Isley...
Last edited by HegemonKhan; August 15, 2011 at 08:35 PM.
I had a nice arm. Something like this might happen, though: http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/20...ao-d5f6q59.jpg