Lol when did this thread become comparing who's performance was greater against Pain lol. Of course Jiraiya performed better by himself but i think we can all agree that Kakashi's leadership,intelligence,skill were top notch in that fight aswell. He actually engaged the strongest path and within minutes of fighting was able to deduce what his ability was and found the interval to defeat God pain. Then after coming up with a nice plan which was foiled by robot Pain he decided to throw away his life and save at the time a shinobi who was pretty weak in Choji so he could share the information Kakashi found. No disrespect to Naruto as his performance against Pain was greater then the other 2 but imagine if he had no idea about God realm from the start and didn't know about his 5 second interval. I like to look at the Pain arc as full tactical battle that was a team effort from the second Jiraiya was defeated to Naruto converting Nagato. It showed the passing of the torch in a sense as the village banded together to defeat an all powerful advesary. Everybody contributed from Jiraiya, Tsunade, Kakashi, Konohamuru,Naruto, etc.
jiraya don't have a Kekkei Genkai as kakashi's sharingan that even if the sharingan take so much chakra from him still kakashi got more Benefits( ability to read Genjutsu, Taijutsu and Ninjutsu,view a technique being performed and almost instantly memorize the ,Sees chakra/movement/flow,moldings and seals used and kamui), if jiraya had sennin-mode, kakashi as well had the sharingan.
kakashi is an excellent shinobi but as sasuke said in the manga that eye saved you so many times.
People have made strong arguments on both sides. It took me awhile to dive into the argument because I love both characters and I voted for Jiraiya not because I love him more, but because he's got better skills. Jiraiya may not be the strategic powerhouse that Kakashi is, but Jiraiya ain't a moron, either. Jiraiya was always smart enough to track down Orochimaru and get intel on Akatsuki - a super secret organization. Plus, he could always openly peep on women and never get caught .
I believe that people are derailing the topic by having a "who's better by how they faired against Pain" debate. Just create a new thread and talk the smack there. True, we need to use a ninja's previous battles as reference to how they'd fare against their opponent. But by no means should that automatically decide the victor. No one here is Kishimoto, so any logical and well made argument made in either's favor is plausible. Hell, if it wasn't shown the manga, who would've thought that Konohamaru would've given one of the Path's a Rasengan? No one. It's just as likely that Kakashi can catch Jiraiya offguard and Raikiri his ass. In my opinion, I doubt it, but we can't really argue that it's impossible.
All the rest of the matches are gonna go this way. I wanna see who's gonna be brave enough to say that Itachi's gonna lose to Madara .
---------- Post added at 11:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 AM ----------
Tournament Rule Nr. 1 - No bashing or flaming, direct or indirect
The ones that feel hit by the above sentence know who they are. Keep the discussions friendly in ALL threads. There's no reason to get emotional, this is a tournament meant for FUN purposes and entertainment.
Also may I remind you that this is a thread meant to discuss Kakashi vs Jiraiya, if you want to explain their powers through other fights that's fine, but make a connection and don't stray off into a completely different battle.
How is saying that Sharingan is an enhancement a low level attempt to make a point? Is it not an enhancement? Is calling Sharingan an enhancement trolling? Sharingan comes with a set of skills and enabled Kakashi to pick up numerous (1000) useful skills over the course of a lifetime. I am not saying that Sharingan and Sage Mode are 1:1, but I am also not naive enough to overlook that Sharingan is an enhancement of Kakashi's shinobi abilities. Even if Kakashi has no physical enhancements like Sage Mode gives, Jiraiya has no doujutsu enhancements like sharingan gives. They each have their own upside.
How you feel about it compared to sage mode is up to you. Sharingan:
These are abilities you get if you go from "no sharingan" to "sharingan," it is plainly obvious to most people that sharingan is a serious enhancement for a shinobi, otherwise no one would give a damn about them, instead they are very highly sought. If we add in MS, Kakashi can now warp away all types of stuff, etc.
- Sees chakra/movement/flow
- Steal jutsu
- Prediction abilities (aids taijutsu when matched with offensive timing, completes Raikiri/Chidori)
- Built-in Genjutsu
- Built-in Genjutsu decoding
- See through hand seals
Bottom line is Pein was fighting 3 extremly powerfull ninjas in JMan's case but only 1 in Kakashi's.
If you whant to debate this further the frogs are not even ninja tools if not for the tournament rules. The frogs are JMan's friends and they help him because of that. They can say no and walk away any time they would whant that. They can also themselfs summon JMan if they whant to. We all remember Naruto summoning Bunta in part one and Bunta refusing to help him(well at first).
@Rell250: I am not stuck on "physical enhancements" as a generic dividing line to try to give Kakashi a higher standing ground. Kakashi has Sharingan to take him above his base mode, Jiraiya has Sage mode to take him above his base mode. Both Jiraiya and Kakashi are using enhancements to improve their shinobi abilities, even if they are not 1:1. A quick glance at a dictionary reveals that to enhance is to "intensify or increase in quality, value, power, etc; improve; augment." Sharingan certainly did those things to Kakashi's shinobi abilities.
The sharingan is defenetly a physical enhancement lol. Why? Well its simple, can he see better then a normal human with that eye? I gues the answer is obvious here.