kakashi is very strong,and he is a genious.but he hasn't got much chakra. Jiraiya is very strong too,he isn't a genious but he has a lot of chakra. both kakashi and jiraiya have stated several times jiraiya is stronger. kakashi has got kamui but he needs time to hit a whole body,and jiraiya's body is very big. if he enter in senjutsu-mode,kakashi can't do anything.
@xXan, if I don't misunderstood you, basically thats what I wanted to say <you can see the face of the guy in Susano'o> It appears on what the MS eye focuses on. BUT what I wanted to say is that Amaterasu isn't like that, because its flying towards its target, therefore even if MS user is focusing its eye on the fighter inside Susano'o, Amaterasu will appear on Susano'o, not the shinbi inside of Susano'o.
jiraya should be able to make cleaver use of his clones and big aoe to block kakashi's line of sight like he did against pain http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...8/page013.html and http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...8/page015.html, granted that was a confined space but the point still stands that if he has to evade, negate, or counter he can be left in a vulnerable position or even lose sight of jiraya. from kakashi's fight with the immortals we can see that he can be caught of guard if pressured http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...6/page011.html, http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...6/page012.html, and http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...6/page013.html jiraya's hair can act the same way as those tendrils but be done from a safe position with a clone. and dropped a toad on top of him which would take care of things even in the event or it being a of shadow or lightning clone
it really looks bad for kakashi that he couldn't do a thing against deva pein and kakashi even said that how jiraya could fight with not just deva pein but with the whole six paths of pein.kakashi knew more about pein with jiraya's info and pa and ma while jiraya was the first from konoha to fight pein.
all i will say in regards to how well kakashi and jiraya did agaisnt pain is that sthey had some prior knowledge to a degree. jiraya taught nagato how to use the elements and knew he master them so he was expecting something along those lines. kakashi knew what jiraya found out towards the end and that was there were multiple pains, different tech for each and shared vision. they both had to find out what the ability of the paths they faced were, both had back up and some capacity, were blindsided by more paths showing up when they thought they had the match won and died after pushing themselves to the limit to pass on what they learned.
but to say that kakashi is better than jiraya because the latter used sage mode is not taking account kakashi has a freaking Mangekyō Sharingan.
Quick question even though it probally would have no impact on this fight. Kakashi's lightning blade is stated to be different from Sasuke's childori and a full rank above from a to s. They look the same to me but if Kakashi's is more concentrated or stronger is their a chance that his s class lightning blade would overpower Jiraiya's a rank rasengan? I know rasengan doesn't fall under the element wheel but i wanted to here peoples thoughts on this since every time Naruto and Sasuke clashed with rasengan and childori they canceled eachother out. Also to note bc i always seem to forget Kakashi can use rasengan too.
even thou a standard rasengan is still a rank its more varies depending on the users proficiency, naruto and konohamru have vastly different sized rasengans. even naruto's great ball rasengan is still classified as a rank but its atleast twice as big a normal but left a sizeable crater and minato's regular rasengan is about that size and power. in the end it just depends on how much chakra you pump into it and jiraya certainly has the ability to do so but whether or not were at liberty to make him do so is another matter
So i stand by my words Kakashi himself was not "impressive", impressive may be a word that i would use to describe their team work (Kakashi, Chouza, and Chouji). But "Impressive" is a word that can only be reserved for Naruto in his fight against Deva Pain. Everyone else Deva Pain fought pretty much made him look like the "GOD" he claimed to be.
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Last edited by rell250; July 16, 2011 at 04:10 PM.
Last edited by Naruffy; July 16, 2011 at 04:26 PM.
This is a real hard choice for me. Obviously, I'm going for Jiraiya, but I love Kakashi as well nonetheless. However, as much as I'm a big Jiraiya guy, I believe he takes this for the following reasons:
Jiraiya is pretty much a never-ending spring of chakra. His chakra reserve is completely off the charts. As evidenced by Fukusaku. In contrast, Kakashi has very low levels of chakra. Granted, he knows how to use every drop of his chakra efficiently and intelligently, if this battle were to drag on, he's a goner.
Those who contend that Kakashi can win merely because he has Kamui are going into this too simply. Kakashi spends a lot of chakra using Kamui, and he himself doesn't use it unless he's an extremely dire situation because he always ends up hospitalized when using it and risks dying when having to use it twice. When he caught up to Sasuke and Sakura he used it against Sasuke's Susano'o, however he wasn't fighting, so had enough stamina left. However, if the battle drags on, if he uses it, he's pretty much incapacitated.
Now, let's say he does use Kamui against Jiraiya. It's not gonna be useful. Madara said that it wouldn't work on him. Why? Because Madara can merely warp himself out of the dimension Kakashi sends him to. If Kakashi warps Jiraiya away by using Kamui, one of Jiraiya's toads can summon him back with a reverse kuchiyose.
As for battle skills, we have to discard the fact that Kakashi and Jiraiya know of each other. Based on their battle prowess, they're gonna give each other a run for their money. However, Jiraiya's toads are better than Kakashi's dogs. If Jiraiya feels the need to get into Sage Mode it's all over for Kakashi. Kakashi has a Sharingan and Jiraiya would know how to deal with a Sharingan (the rules state that known powers like Sharingan aren't secret or unknown beforehand). So Jiraiya's gonna know how to counter it.
I just honestly don't see how Kakashi can beat Jiraiya. It'd be one hell of a match to see, though.
Jiraiya knew more about Pain than Kakashi did when they both died. Jiraiya knew about Nagato and his mastery over elements, who the real body was. Kakashi knew nothing but shared vision and each Pain having individual powers, which is what Jiraiya knew. Kakashi knew nothing else about Pain, and he alone fought against the two strongest bodies in base mode, which Jiraiya never did. Like Jiraiya, Kakashi learned about Deva's abilities through trial and error and even managed to trick Deva and Asura without running away. Kakashi was more impressive.
If anyone wants to downplay Kakashi from his fight with Pain, it's only fair Jiraiya gets downplayed too.
Like I said though, I think Kakashi has shown to be more impressive because he isn't really a chakra monster like JIraiya or had the knowledge on Nagato/Pain the way Jiraiya did.
Also, how can Jiraiya enter Sage Mode against Kakashi... easily anyway? It was easy for him when he was fighting Animal Realm, but against someone like Kakashi, it'll be hard for Jiraiya to get into Sage Mode. Kakashi can avoid the big summons easily like Deva did and get up to Jiraiya to attack him. Kakashi could also use Kamui since Jiraiya wouldn't know what's going on or be able to see Kakashi's eye clearly if he's that high up.
In taijutsu, Kakashi has Jiraiya beat in base mode thanks to Kakashi's own skills and Sharingan. If Jiraiya gets into Sage Mode, maybe Jiraiya has the advantage. Ninjutsu is unknown... as for genjutsu, Kakashi has the advantage unless Jiraiya has Ma and Pa out and ready to sing, from which Kakashi could deduce that they're trying sound genjutsu.
Originally Posted by Demented Kirby
Again, we're not obligated to force ninja to fight the way Kishi wants them to fight. Anything in their repertoire can be used at any time provided they make the proper cost and prep to use it, for any believable scenario. That's why people say things like "RM Naruto will just go into RM and punch Kisame's head off!" Naruto doesn't fight that way, but it doesn't change the fact that that it is in his power to do so, and thus we HAVE to accept that as a valid argument.
The same goes for Kakashi dropping a Kamui on the enemy from jump street despite it's chakra cost, Sasuke going into Susanoo at the beginning of the fight despite the intense pain, or Deidara spitting out a C4 from the beginning of the fight despite it being meant specifically to be used against Itachi. It doesn't matter if they would or wouldn't do that in the manga. The only thing that matters is they CAN.
Originally Posted by Demented Kirby
That's under the assumption he warps Jiraiya away in his whole, uninjured form. If he warps away his head or half his torso, Jiraiya won't be summoning anything. If I were Kakashi I'd take an arm from him to guarantee those handseals are unusuable and limit his offensive options.