OK, people believe that the King is perfect and that he has beyond human intellect. But still he is not able to beat Komugi... That goes to say that the same way there is a human better than him at a game, there might be others with a higher fight IQ.
I don't think any of the posters here are wrong, each one of you could be right. A fight between Geneiryodan and the King in my opinion could go either way. There are so many ways the abilities of Geneiryodan can be used together to create some amazing combos!
We know that Kuroro is a genius. At such a young age he battled the zodiac head and Silva together. I'm not saying the Zoldiac went full power, but still, Kuroro made it competitive. For instance, he is able to predict the future, that would help a lot against Meruem.
Right now I can't think about a combo they could use to defeat Meruem. But they don't need to kill the king to win, they can just suck him with Kuroro's or shisuku's ability. Once locked inside he won't be able to get out. Once inside the vacuum or inside kuroro's hanky, they can drop rose's inside it to kill the King. Or even better, once inside, they can throw something inside the vacuum cleaner, so that the King get's weaker, and then they put him outside and Kuroro can try to copy the king's ability. But of course, it would be very difficult to get the king inside.
Secondly, how can Kururo copy or steal the King's ability when clearly AGAIN conditions would not be met since he's using purely brute strength - he has no specific techniques that particularly stand out just his biological physique - moreover King wouldn't exactly spill the beans so easily and in terms of speed tier there would be difficulty restraining him much less capture him for skill hunter to activate.
Finally, you seem to be underestimating the most crucial aspect of the King that you keep insisting to be the Ryodan's advantage namely intelligence. Unfortunately, as many have pointed out the King is VERY intelligent and quite tactical himself as a result of his constant battles with Komugi. Just because he could not beat Komugi doesn't mean he's any weaker since he took his losses and LEARNED from them, and he lost to the best possible person to teach him about battle tactics. He's basically been refined in his intellect, tactics, and battle experience thanks to his continuous shougi matches, which says a lot about the respect Togashi gives shougi. Add that with his naturally high physical abilities (especially speed) and vast amounts of nen, along with his way of replenishing it, the King would wipe the ants out. We just need to look at Netero who would clearly be an equivalent for many of the Ryodan already and we saw one very crucial thing which is that Netero could NOT dent the King, assuming Netero's damage would be on par with Ubo that would not bode well for the battle since they couldn't pierce through his defense.
Plain and simple the King is hands down the strongest creature HOWEVER that is why we have the twist with poison, doesn't make him any lower on the hierarchy nor does it feel like such a cheating way to kill him since now the challenge is still staying alive till he dies.
Last edited by Hamy; August 25, 2011 at 08:18 AM.
The King is not perfect, e.g. he loses to Komugi in shougi.
It is possible to beat him.
What I am understanding is the following:
YOU: it is impossible for Geneiryodan to beat the King.
ME: is is possible for Geneiryodan to beat the King. I am not saying they always win, but it is possible. Maybe not even probable, but still possible.
What I like about HxH is that nen volume is not everything, the way you use your nen abilities is what matters the most. Even if Meruem could tank through many nen abilities, I am pretty sure that there exist some nen abilities that match up well against Meruem.
I know there are conditions to be met for Kuroro's ability to work. I just didn't write them here, I know it would be difficult for the conditions to be met. I know. And the King does have one ability, it is the ability to acquire nen abilities by eating nen users.
Don't worry, I see your arguments as to why it would be difficult for Geneiryodan to win. Thanks for the reply.
You also have to consider you've never mentioned how it would take a rose bomb point blank to beat the King, which is where Komugi can come in again as you notice in BOTH instance human intellect triumphs not brute strength. In other words THERE IS a possibility to defeat the King assuming the Ryodan - which shouldn't be that impossible - procures a Rose bomb and manages to detonate it in close range to the King which would easily end up killing him. However, the difficulty would be in LURING the King alone, he had reason to face Netero as he wanted something but in this situation of a hypothetical match up there is nothing the Ryodan could offer. Kuroro COULD devise a trap with the Rose, and with Shalnark to help it would be great help here. However, because the King has developed an ability to see through lies lets just say that should add a new difficulty in trapping him.
However, in facing the King off in a battle royale as the discussions have so far been geared towards clearly the King is at an overwhelming advantage to easily kill them, just by the fact that they cannot dent him. You also fail to realize why Skill Hunter would be useless since the King would not speak of his "ability" - if you consider devouring to be his nen ability which I sincerely doubt it to be but rather attribute as a natural mechanism as we've seen with the Queen giving birth to ants with nen abilities after devouring people with nen. Moreover, the King only releases a godly amount of Nen aura that surrounds him which amps up his offense - his nen abilities are so far the ones he has gained from his Royal Guards but they are more of a mix of a nen ability/physical enhancement. Simply put the King has no pure hatsu technique for Kuroro to exploit so as to steal and seal his nen, hence Skill hunter would be useless other than providing possible skills to help him stay alive.
Edit: Also given what we've seen with the Ryodan so far it is possible that there are members who cannot fight all out when they are in a group. Feitan is a case in point remember how his ability is indiscriminate hence it would damage his allies. Ubo and Nobu would be an issue for a long range fighter like Franklin who would not need obstacles in his way as he fires his bullets. The list can go on but point is you seem to be thinking that because they are a group it would be possible for them to fight with teamwork. Their style so far as shown is to split up individually - rarely do they work in a duo - and try to keep out of each others way.
Last edited by Hamy; August 25, 2011 at 09:50 AM.
Obviously it is plausible for someone to be better than the king at something very specific but that does not mean every skilled person around could have something he is better than the king.
Based on what we know and the many aspects that a fight can take, where is the king inferior to the ryodan? Lets consider the many factors a fight involves.
In general the least important aspect. Even then, we have every reason to believe the king has more nen than the ryodan combined. Nen amount can be directly correlated to your basic attack and defense though and in this regard we have every reason to believe is insanely stronger than the ryodan. his nen amount can also be correlated to his speed. Knuckle is an insanely skilled hunter, perhaps even capable of matching a ryodan fighting member, and he still did not even react to the kings speed.
Resistance to damage:
Before getting the power of the royal guard he was strong enough to quite literally take a nuke and survive. Now he is much stronger than that. Is there one among the ryodan members that can even come close to a nuke? I honestly doubt it.
I already wrote about this. The king is a supremely tactical fighter on top of being impossibly fast, impossibly strong and impossibly resistant to damage.
The king just got every ability that yupi and pufu had and took them a step further. He can shot kamehamehas and blow up a mountain effortlessly. His en is so wide it is impossible to hide from him in a fight. he can fly meaning he has instant highground advantage in any fight.
Phinx and franklins abilities can be tanked with greater amounts of nen since they are pretty straighforward. Anyways, if netero's hundreds of thousands of attacks barely put a scratch on the king I doubt any of these two has a chance. From feitan we have only seen one ability which involves an armor and a sun like thingy.If a nuke did not kill the king then this would not even warm him up.
Shalnark is a manipulation type which means he actually has a shot at controlling the king if he manages to put his anthena in place. Problem? Putting the anthena in place should be pretty close to impossible given the sheer physical capacities of the king. Using the anthena on himself would be stupid, there is no way it can bring him even remotely close to the king.
The mommy guy would be interesting although he is most likely outclassed in every physical aspect to begin with. I doubt his meteor would even begin to put a scratch on the king either.
Kuroro is the one with the actual chance of doing anything since he does have many abilities although he still has the need to react to the kings movements. It is extremely likely he also cannot react to the kings movements.
The king is being killed by poison for a reason, he is simply too strong, too fast, too smart as a fighter....
I am tempted to believe that Meryem is almost invencible.
However, we can never tell the outcome of a battle beetween Nem users, and the Ryodan have several different abilities.
Shikuzus Vakuum Cleaner can only suck in dead things or materials.
And for Kuroro to steal (he did not copy them) abilities there are plenty of prerequisites required.
For example: The Nen user from wich he wants to steal the ability he needs them to tell him about what the ability does. Then the User has to put his hand on Kuroros book. Also, and thats the most important thing, if the Nen User dies, Kuroro cannot use the ability again.
Be sure you read Hunter X Hunter properly before making such predictions again.
All the Spiders?
Does Hisoka count?
What about Uvogin?
I say the King dies but takes out about half the spiders.
Now King plus Pitou, Pouf, and Youpi vs the Spiders?
There's a battle.
Even if you add Hisoka, Uvogin and Kalluto they're not gonna add anything mindblowingly phenomenal to the fight, just more corpses. Good luck with any of them catching up to Meryem first.
If by any chance Meryem ingests Shalnark's Black Voice antenna maybe he could be controlled but good luck with that happening in the first place.
Also, as Phinks, try to enter the battle after swinging your arm for like a hundred thousand times already and keep swingin while in the battle. If you're feeling lucky you might destroy Meryem along with the whole planet. That is, if that's how it works (by giving you infinite power with infinite swings).
To be honest I would think the royal guard would still be within the range of the ryodan. It would be an unlikely victory for the most part but at least plausible. Feitan actually burning pufu seems plausible for instance. Still, each royal guard having as much nen as the ryodan combined is not that far fetched and we don't have to forget that the royal guard are strong enough to take people like kaito or knuckle with ease overall.
Last edited by Netero; August 27, 2011 at 09:52 PM.
The more interesting matchup I think would be the Royal Guards vs. Ryodan. However the Ants still have an edge.
First time poster here, though a long time HXH fan.
First of all the talk between Zeno and Kuroro just goes to reinforce the fact that you cannot know anything for sure unless you know each other's ability completely. It's pretty clear Zeno is far stronger than Kuroro in any tangible measurement, i.e. aura level, raw power, experience, and probably even tactics (Zeno saw through all of Kuroro's tactics easily). However this doesn't mean much when you don't know what kind of aura power the other guy may have. Zeno is an assassin who is very interested in getting out of his mission alive. He is not going to say he has this much aura power so no way he's going to lose. He clearly has no idea what kind of ability Kuroro may have on that book, so even though he can tell he is stronger, he's not going to risk his life for no reason. That's why he said he'd almost certain win a normal battle but can't say the same if it was to the death. For all he knows maybe Kuroro has an ability that only works on assassins!
Meryem cannot be compared to the Spiders, even in his initial form. Novu said that it's okay if the rest of the assault team got wiped out by the Royals as long as they defeated Meryem. This implies by himself Meryem is considered a threat to humanity itself. If the Spiders can defeat him that'd mean they too are a threat to humanity itself. This simply is not true. If Kuroro didn't hire his own assassins there was a good chance a significant portion of the Spiders would be taken out by Silva and Zeno.
At any rate a fight between Meryem and Spiders would have answer the question how is the fight going to start. If Meryem is in 'dinner' mode, the fight would begin with a significant portion of the Spiders missing their head or at least a limb, possibly including Kuroro (there is no reason to believe he is the top 3 most capable physical fighter out of Spiders themselves), and of course each person he kills would make him even stronger. When Meryem first met Zeno and Netero, Zeno and Netero were momentarily distracted and both of them realized that they could've died for just taking their eyes off Meryem for even a split second. If being distracted for a split second could've killed Netero, I don't see how the much weaker average Spider member would stand a chance even if they've their full attention on Meryem.
However, Meryem could be in his more human side, and in this form he clearly wants to find a challenge. After all, he gave Netero a considerable handicap (he promised he wouldn't kill him). I'd imagine Meryem might give Spiders something like no killing (from him), and he must give the Spiders some kind of lead time to charge up attacks. This criteria is crucial because if Meryem can attack first he'd just remove the limbs of all the spider and that'd pretty much stop any of the abilities the Spiders possess. That said even if they have time to plan and execute an attack, there's no way the Spiders can dish out enough damage to hurt Meryem physically. I'm going to assume there's no way they're going to be able to stick an antenna in his body (the antenna wouldn't stick even on grunts without an opening), and Phinx won't just get to spend his arm a million times. The only attack that may affect him is by sucking up his blood (Shizuku). It's pretty clear that he does bleed and presumably even he will die if he lost all his bloodm though given Shizuku's rock bottom physical ability, it's hard to imagine how she can continue doing that once Meryem realize what's going on.