Netero's original evaluation of Pitou is that "He looks stronger than me". It's true that Netero has improved his power after that encounter, but clearly all the Royals have learning speed that is far greater than the most talented humans, so there's no reason to assume they cannot improve either.
It's pretty clear Netero's special is an all-out attack that consumes aura reserves at a rapid pace. Presumably Netero uses his attacks to create separation between him and his enemy. However, it is important to note that he actually cannot create any separation during his battle against Meryem. If you recall, Meryem was sitting still, and after being hit, he was still sitting in the same position. This means, at least against Meryem, there is actually nothing stopping Meryem from charging straight at Netero and just trade hits. Meryem didn't do this because his goal was to show Netero his superiority, but the Royals would not be under such obligation.
Given what we have seen so far, Netero can clearly knockback Pitou. Since Pufu is weaker than Pitou physically, Netero would be able to knockback Pitou as well. There is no information to predict if Netero can knockback Yupi (Yupi is physically stronger than Pitou, but presumably weaker than Meryem). Note that Netero is only faster in his attack speed. He's not physically faster than Meryem and probably not even the Royals, so he can't just hit and run if he cannot create separation via his attacks.
Netero versus Yupi would be the worst possible match for Netero. Netero's strength is that his attack is pretty much unavoidable (unless you're Meryem), yet Yupi is clearly the 'tank' character. Based on his fighting style it seems like Yupi doesn't even try to avoid attacks. It'd purely be Netero's attack versus Yupi's defense, and I see no way Netero can break Yupi's defense, even including his final attack. If he could, that'd mean Netero's attack power is greater than defense of the most durable Royal. That'd defy the concept that Royals/Meryem are supposed to have an insurmountable physical attribute advantage and that humans are supposed to overcome these advantages with experience/ingenuity/trickery.
Unless Yupi takes greatly elevated damage during his anger explosions, Yupi would simply outlast Netero. It seems to me Yupi was especially angry because he was fighting guys that, according to him, aren't even 1/10 of his power, and yet he's having so much trouble. It's clear Netero is at least of comparable level to Yupi, so I don't think he'd be angry to find that he has a hard time with Netero.
Netero versus Pitou would be offense versus offense. Netero has faster attack speed, while Pitou has faster physical speed. We do not know how long of a reach Netero has, but we'll assume it is long enough that Pitou wouldn't try to just open some distance heal back up (since if he's hit while he's healing he'll pretty much die against someone of Netero's strength). It seems certain the fight will end with a double KO. If Netero has the advantage, he will kill Pitou and then Pitou animate his body and kill him. Even if Netero's final attack somehow vaporized Pitou's body, his final attack pretty much uses up his life force so he might as well be dead anyway. Likewise if Pitou has an edge, I think Netero's damage from regular attacks + final attack ought to be enough to kill him. Super Gon basically took out Pitou with one attack, and while Super Gon is clearly even more powerful than Netero, I'd think Netero can at least accomplish what Super Gon did in one attack if he uses up all his powers.
Netero versus Pufu would end up with a steamroll for Netero. I see no way Pufu can even inflict meaningful damage and his clones will simply get slapped to the death. Unless his clones' physical immunity means they take no damage from Netero's attacks (in that case I guess he can't possibly lose), the best Pufu could do is hide his real body somewhere while Netero swats all the mini Pufus.
Last edited by Phantron; September 09, 2011 at 01:33 AM.
Netero could take any one of them in a one on one fight, it wouldn't be a walk in the park but he could do it. I just don't see how anyone of them could survive the fast onslaught of combinations of Netero's Hyakushiki Kannon.
Last edited by Netero; September 09, 2011 at 03:02 AM.
Because it would be very stupid for him to challenge the king if he knew he couldn't beat one of the weaker royal guards.
The king could by no means simply charge at netero and kill him, that much was made clear in the manga. Mereum had to calculate his moves an incalculable amount of attacks before netero ever did them. Netero was in fact faster than the king and netero could for the most part freely land hits on the king.
The royal guards are at large a lot weaker than the king. More so, the king could at least kinda grasp netero's movements, in turn the royal guard could not even perceive it.
Granted pitou did not take much damage from that attack but in turn if he had gone up against netero I do think he would have been in trouble against hundreds of thousands of attacks. In terms of aura amount netere is obviously and perhaps painfully weaker than the royal guards but in terms of using aura, in terms of skill, netero is more than overwhelmingly superior to the ants and perhaps even the king.
Meryem basically wants Netero to surrender. He isn't even trying to kill him. If he overpower him with his physical defense/speed, it is almost certain Netero would not give up, because it's not exactly a secret that Meryem has overwhelming advantage in these fields. Refer to this: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hunter...8/c292/15.html
It's clearly implied that Meryem can easily outlast Netero, and he's hoping that Netero doesn't run out of energy before he figured out how to beat him. He's trying to beat Netero before he tires him out, because Meryem is clearly not satisfied with a victory won that way.
But the Royals are not under any obligation to win like that at all. Basically you can think of Netero's attack as some kind of guaranteed, no-miss attack against anyone besides Meryem. They obviously take a lot of aura power from Netero, and they'll definitely do damage to the Royals. However, the Royals have far higher durability and aura reserves. We'll assume that Netero's attack converts his power for offense more effectively than Royals can for defense. But without knowing how efficient the attack is, there is no guaranteed it'll outlast the Royals' aura reserves. Remember in HXH you can't just get a free lunch. Netero's attack has the following properties:
1. Ridiculously fast (faster attack speed than any character).
2. Omni direction
3. Imperceptible weakness in all moves (only Meryem was able to see them, and it's safe to assume no one else can see the flaws)
These are pretty significant advantages, so I don't think it'd be reasonable to assume that on top of these advantages, it also does ridiculous damage relative to the aura power used. Again, Meryem says he hopes Netero doesn't run out of energy before he found out how to beat him, so this implies Netero's move is very draining on aura power.
These advantages are also completely useless on Yupi, who basically doesn't think about tactics and doesn't appear to ever try to dodge attacks. He clearly uses his aura to power his body for enhanced attack/defense, and his body is meant to absorb a ton of damage. This negates a significant part of Netero's arsenal, because there's no point for an attack that doesn't miss if the enemy wasn't even trying to dodge.
In the case of Pitou, the question would be does every one of Netero's attack does a knockback, because he is clearly affected by it. If it does, then yes he'd never actually get close to him. It looks like some of Netero's attack just hits the person in place (the swat attack, for example). I guess you can say then Netero can just use knockback attack, but Pitou didn't seem to be bothered by the knockback, which makes me think Netero can either damage Pitou or knock him back, but not both at the same time. Then at some point, there's a strong possibillity that Pitou can trade hits. Netero's fists might be the fastest thing in HXH, but that doesn't mean his legs are too. This matchup is actually pretty meaningless because both characters have an extremely powerful 'on-death' move so you're just going to get a double KO no matter how the fight initially played out.
---------- Post added at 07:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:11 PM ----------
This picture explains the handicap Meryem gave Netero:
Shogi pieces: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shogi
There is no Queen in Shogi, and there is only 1 Rook and 1 Bishop and they are by far the most powerful pieces in Shogi. Meryem is saying he believes this fight is equivalent to that kind of handicap. I'm not exactly an expert in Shogi, but that's a pretty significant disadvantage there. Meryem won the fight and got the info he want as expected, so it's not like this set of handicap was unrealistic. Yes, he was impressed with how Netero fought, but again that's in a situation where Meryem has a signifcant handicap.
So if Netero is stronger than the Royals, what does Meryem think of his Royals? Opponent that he can beat with only pawns?
---------- Post added at 08:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:42 PM ----------
Did a bit more research, here's what I found from http://eric.macshogi.com/shogi/handi...ap-intro.html:
"Professionals in training use a lance for two pro ranks, a bishop for five, and a rook for seven; the pro ranks are much narrower than the amateur ranks. A full-fledged pro should be able to give handicaps to amateurs as if he were ranked 7 Dan, assuming he is playing seriously, or as a 6 Dan if he is playing three games at once, as is the common practice. Note that the handicaps are not evenly spaced; the gap between no handicap (or first move) and lance, and the gap between bishop and rook, are smaller than the other gaps in my opinion."
The pro rank goes from 1 dan (lowest) to 9 dan (highest).
If you assume Meryem is obviously the grandmaster equivalent in fighting (9 dan), note that a rook by itself is 7 ranks (down to 2 dan). I'm guessing they don't list what equivalent of rook + bishop because it'd mean the other guy you're playing isn't a pro.
Since HXH took place in Japan, one would assume that it's implied all the characters in the story know exactly what Meryem means. So he's basically saying he needs to fight Netero as if he is an amateur compared to him. There is no evidence that he was wrong about his judgment. He certainly didn't lose, and nowhere did he indicate he had to go break his self imposed handicaps to win.
---------- Post added at 10:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:01 PM ----------
Cross referenced from the source here http://bbs.iiikl.net/topic.php?topic...e=2&class_id=0, this is the official *power level* of the relevent characters.
Take the fields that seems most relevent to combat, which looks like Skill, Stamina, and Aura. All these characters have 5/5/5 on those.
Pitou gives up 1 point on 'Mind' and 1 point on 'Knowledge'.
Yupi gives up 2 points on 'Ingenuity' and 1 point on 'Knowledge'.
Pufu gives up 2 points on 'Mind'.
The fields the Royals are weaker do not seem to appear to be ones that would be that important in a battle to the death. In general it'd appear the Royals lose to Netero in terms of mental aptitude, but nobody ever said Pitou or Yupi are the smartest guys around. Netero is obviously battle hardened so he has an advantage here, but it's hard for me to see how he can turn a mental edge into a physical one.
Of course the power chart is a very rough estimate. It makes no sense these characters should all have equivalent aura (Netero seems to be better at aura attack, but Royals definitely have more aura reserves) or physical (no way Netero can match the Royal's physical attack/defense). Presumably the '5' is more used to mean 'on a whole different level compared to a 4'. Still, it can be seem that the official sourcebook at least consider the Royals and Netero as the same class when it comes to fighting stats. He may have an edge due to his experience, but the Royals surely have more durability/aura points to use compared to him.
Note that Meryem has a 6 in every category. No character is in his class in ANY of these stats.
Last edited by Phantron; September 09, 2011 at 08:19 PM.
After the second hit:
Note the distance Netero is standing away from Meryem is the distance he deems necessary to be safe (i.e. any closer he might not be able to react on time). It's hard to measure something only from the manga, but it looks to me the distance between Meryem and Netero is much greater than the distance Meryem has moved by after the first hit.
This means he will never get enough distance to be 'safe' just by his attack. I don't see why Netero will be physically faster than Meryem. It said he trained day and night on his fists. His fists may be supersonic but nowhere does it say any other part of his body is. In that encounter, Netero said he backed up twice the normal distance compared to normal. If he is faster than Meryem, why does he need to back up in the first place? All he would need to do is back up whenever Meryem advances.
Netero admitted he never expected to defeat Meryem, he only wanted to activate the Rose over him.
Netero probably wouldn't be able to defeat the Royal Guard either, as he was unable to cause any injury to Meryem.
The reason Meryem couldn't catch up with Netero's Nem ability was probably because of Nem experience as a martial artist, rather than the level of his Nem.
You're all wrong and right at the same time, because we can't possibly know the outcome of an Royal Guard vs Netero fight.
But look at this Page, Middle Pannel.
Killua comparing their Aura to Pitou's, but look at what Killua sees in Netero's Aura (aside from the Puppet he controlls), it's the Rose. I don't know if this is old to everyone, because I was mostly on Naruto forums past Years and this hxh is "new" too, but I for my part didn't know that Togashi foreshadows that important things this obvious. I like it though. As this Chapter got release I merely thought of this "Rose"-Aura expression as a way to show the nature of his Nen/Aura, but looking at it now makes its meaning obvious.
Last edited by ~Andrew~; September 12, 2011 at 05:12 PM.
Netero may have said "He looks stronger than me."
But when they actually met it was Netero who with practically
just a flick of his wrist sent Pitou flying so as not to be bothered.
Yes it was just a short skirmish and it would be rather difficult to determine
the actual results of a real battle from that. But the impression I got from
that scene was that Netero was at a level beyond Pitou.
Similarly, when the King unflinchingly walked past Netero and Zeno it gave the
impression that the King was the strongest of the three. Which I think is true.
Netero could not beat the king of his own power and had to resort to the rose bomb.
As for Zeno, it seems pretty clear that he considers Netero to be his superior
and since the King is stronger than Netero it follows logically that Zeno is weaker
than the King.
Also to say Netero can't beat Pitou is the equivalent of saying Macho Gon is stronger
than Netero since Macho Gon DID beat Pitou.
Super Gon is clearly who Gon would be if it he ever reached his prime (this is actually unlikely, Gon doesn't really like training at all). If he is not flat out the strongest human character in the world of HXH in that form, that'd mean all the foreshadowing about his potential, which scares even a Royal guard, is some kind of sick joke. Note that Pitou encountered Netero and his reaction certainly was not fear, and it's clearly implied Pitou has the ability to see the true threat of his enemies, as nobody else foresaw that Gon has the potential to threaten even Meryem.
Killua in his lightning mode had a similar beatdown against Yupi that's comparable to Netero's attacks (no misses, no hits taken). However Yupi did not suffer any meaningful damage from the fight. Sure Netero is stronger than than Killua, but it's pretty clear at this point Killua can be considered a formidable fighter. It seems to me people assume Netero will never miss anybody and never get hit by anybody in the world of HXH outside of Meryem. This would mean clearly no other human can touch him. This is not how people talk about Netero. Zeno said he is not on the same level as Netero, but he also didn't say, "I'm nothing compared to him." Novu and Morel both acknowledge that Netero is merely being modest when he says he might be only as strong as they are now, but they sure didn't talk to Netero as someone who can crush them with one hand. Zeno for sure has seen Netero's moves, and he said Netero's moves as 'very difficult to deal with'. Again, if Netero is invinicible using his moves, then he should have said something more like: "Once he uses this move there's no chance for anyone to win!" By saying it's 'difficult to deal with' clearly implies Zeno thinks it is at least possible to beat it.
Obviously Netero would have a huge advantage on the attack versus any Royal. But Killua has a simliar advantage on the attack while in his lightning mode too. Even Meryem praised Pitou for his durability when he tried to kill him and found that he was only bleeding. It can be implied that Royals clearly share some of Meryem's super durability even if they're not quite at the same level. In fact they're the only characters who did not end up missing a limb or their head after one hit from Meryem thus far in the story. It's clear that precsion with any aura ability goes down as battle goes on and fatigue kicks in. Meryem praised Netero for being able to keep his 100% strength for so long, but that doesn't mean Netero is immune to fatigue. Meryem defeated Netero before fatigue became a factor because he clearly views it as dishonorable if not shameful if he had to rely on tiring out a human to win. But the Royals are under no such obligation for a fair fight.
The Thing is, Netero's attack isn't just quick. It's damn powerful too. Now, We have Seen that Killua *could* inflict real damage on both Pufu and Pitou, so i wouldn't say they are on the same level of durability as Mereum at all.
They just are very, very durable.
However, Each hit of Netero's attack was superior to Gon's Rock Jajanken at least until he saw Kaito's dead body and showed off to Morel.
I.... doubt the royal gards would be able to tank hundreds of thousands of them like Meyrem did.
Now, the real problem would be Pitou and Youpi. Pitou because he seems to already have a fighting nen ability, and Youpi because His nature and nen makes very well able to be the 'Tank' of the team. Pouf probably can't do anything serious, though it would be hard for Netero to deal with him.
in a 3vs1 fight, i give the odds to the royal guard if only because they will grow stronger through the battle.
Otherwise, Netero stomps.
By your logic Netero would never lose to any human characters so far in HXH. Any argument that supports him beating a Royal would surely apply to any human being. Again, this isn't how Netero is described by his peers. There is no doubt everyone views him as possibly the strongest human character (not including Super Gon), but they don't talk to him as if he can crush any human oppositon without taking any damage. If Netero is really this strong, Zeno should not have described his move as 'difficult', it should have been 'impossible'. When Netero said Pitou might be stronger than him, Novu and Morel's reaction isn't "OMG we are getting out of here", which should be their reaction if Netero is some invinicible legend that nobody would even contemplate fighting him. The most likely weakness to Netero would be if you have any possibilty to trade hits with him. It's clear Netero's attack focus most of his aura to attack, so he can't have a very strong defense at the same time. Is it possible to trade hits with Netero? Obviously there are way too many unknowns to determine that, but again Zeno only described Netero's move as 'difficult' to handle, not 'impossible'.
As for Killua, Pufu already said if his real self isn't controlling one of his clones then it only has half of his power, and the clone Killua fought only has 1/7 of his aura, so he's fighting 1/14 the power of Pufu. At any rate Pufu's clones have some kind of physical immunity and it's the lightning that hurt him. Morel couldn't destroy a fly-sized mini Pufu (they just break apart and reform) and obviously nobody should believe 1/1000th power of a Pufu can still withstand an attack from Morel. We still don't know what can or cannot hurt Pufu's clones so this argument is pretty speculative. I don't remember Killua ever fighting Pitou.