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Ad water physics; I knew some of those but i was literally baffled at the rest (boiling water into snow!). I imagine that would be somewhat difficult but looking at other conjurers (sentient clown, sentient vacuum cleaner) I still believe that it is an attainable feat. When Kurapika trains to Conjure the chains (from iron or steel I suppose) he basically tricks or beats his subconsciousness into Conjuring it. At the very least I don´t think he studied the physics to Conjure them.
Actually you did. Killua basically recreated things with his aura; he changed the looks of his aura to that of a lightning - shape, colour, and then he gave the effect of lightning to his aura (he knew these effects from the long exposure during his assassins training), but two things that can´t be explained as of yet are the need of recharging and the complicated movements of the lightning. Remember that he is Transmuter - it is still his aura so how can that aura move so fast, why can it crook and move like real lightning, why does that Transmuter aura do small discharges if it is under his control (he complains that his "lightning" can´t go on for long). A conjured lightning would understandably have all these properties but Transmuter must willingly do these changes on his own.
Why would that be impossible? The one Conjurer mechanic left unexplained is this; what happens to deconjured items? Are they left in some pocket universe (an INSANE FEAT)? Or are they actually destroyed every single time and Conjurer basically reconjures them each time (which makes more sense to me)? Consider the case that the conjured item, let´s consider Kurapika´s chain, is cut in half for example. We know that it is self sustainable item so it should continue to exist in this reality, but what would Kurapika do? In the first case he would have to undergo the training again to conjure it again (since he trained to conjure that specific realization of chain), in the second case he would shrug it off by conjuring the exact same chain again (since he trained to conjure an idea of a chain that can generally be conjured anytime). If this principle is applied to water, in the first case I would indeed be able to conjure a specific amount and a specific realization of water (very useful for scams), but in the second case I would be able to conjure water, even after somebody drinks it and pees it (ewww) as long as I have aura. As far as water overflowing problem, I can conjure the water over some receptacle, like a bowl for example.
Last edited by Master OZ; July 12, 2014 at 02:45 AM. Reason: I swear typos are my enemies
For conjuration makes sense to create a bowl that summons water instead of conjuring the water itself. All the conjurers we know work with solid things, or deal with non-solid trough a solid element (Like Basho). The limit of what you can do with it are quite blurry since you're allowed to materialize your own body into something, like Tsubone.
About the amount...Leol stole an ability that let him conjure TONS of water. Like damn LOT. Even if He didn't control the water, it was a damn good hatsu.
BTW, I don't think that you "destroy" what you conjure when you don't summon things. Knov's Hide and Seek allowed him to create a completely different dimension that exist even when He isn't thinking on it. It's safer to assume that all Nen elements when un-summons goes to a Nen dimension until the moment they're summoned again.
Transmutation users seems to work directly with their aura and not with elements. Or change the body itself, like Zazan and Biscuit. The most ambiguous cases are Feitan and Machi, but they could be using Conjuration skills on their techniques as well: After all Hatsu doesn't limit with the school.
Since water is something you experience all the time, it shouldn't be hard to materialize, so little conjuration ability is actually used. I think Emission is the best for water, since it's closest to Manipulation and could work better to overcome the amount issue.
i was actually more inclined to believe this was the case, because then Conjurers if they were destroying and reconjuring their items every time, they would have to spend their aura again and again, which would be fatal for combat. Although my ability would have to work in such way, because creating only specific instance of water would be very limiting.
Well, that didn´t occur to me. You see, when these are listed, they are usually sorted by one school and that threw me off. It would have been much more useful to say that e.g. Machi´s threads are Transmutation mixed with Conjuration and not just by the "dominant" school.
The amount would be solely influenced by Conjuring, or Enhancing (Conjure a small amount of desired water with desired effects and Enhancing the amount like in the water divination test with Enhancer Ren), since Emission influences the control of aura after detachment from the original body. Manipulation should be able to control conjured item, in our case the water.
Last edited by Master OZ; July 13, 2014 at 02:46 AM.
Well, we're three users and we think that three completely different schools are suited better for the same technique xD
I stand by the sort of vase for the water then if it's conjuring and Transmutation if you want to make a waterbend technique. I think the limitations of both techniques are obvious and efficient. Transmutation would work better since it's closer to both Enhance and Conjure and can combine both.
And you could use the vase idea even as a Transmuter , because it's not something that complicate to imagine. Hmmm, now that I think about it, Transmutation IS the best course.
I am not sure if transformation is the ideal one here. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the limit of the water you could transmute at a time the size of your ren? More so, if the water separates from you then you would need emission. In that regard transmutation would be rather inconvenient for the water, you need conjuration for efficiency's sake.
Last edited by tupadre97; July 13, 2014 at 09:47 PM.
Hi guys, I'm new here. Been reading the forum for a while, and now finally decided to make an account.
Let's get started.
Name: Root of Evilness (极恶根源)
Description: When activated, an ability is conjured to best fulfill a task based on my knowledge, condition (physical and psychological), environment, preference and the level of frustration.
Condition: I can only activate the ability when I feel a situation, person, or object is frustrating and problematic.
I have been thinking about nen abilities for almost 2 years, and I kept having new ideas every time after I made an ability, so this is the generalized one to best fulfill my personality. I like to gain knowledge over the things that I find interesting (that can be anything, from arts to science). One of the reason I love to do that is because those knowledge might end up helping me when I am facing an unexpected situation or problem. This has proven to be true, and I enjoy it a lot. Also, since I always like create a nen ability when I'm free, so I think it is logical to have an ability like this, since my preference is included. Also, I like to have things that is kinda like "jack of all trade, master of none", similar to the red mage in FF.
As a side note, the name of the ability, Root of Evilness, is the term I use for frustrating, problematic, annoying things.
I think it is easier to explain the ability if someone asks question
My thoughts on this whole water issue
I dont have a problem with the conjuration of water, it is already proven possible (leol), it just needs a condition
an infinite amount of water that lasts an infinite amount of time is too powerful
Water is only 'simpler' than chains and vacuums because a clear complete mental image already exists in the user's mind, this doesn't mean you can conjure more
you can conjure more simply because the same volume of water and iron or whatever has less mass of water (less total conjured subatomic particles)
I am under the impression that materialized nen objects cannot exist 'forver,' like Kortopi's 24 hr limit, or if a conjurer were to get knocked out/die, the nen object should disappear (after any death nen grudges are enacted). I dont know if conjured stuff also dematerializes when the user goes to sleep, or stops actively willing the nen. So drinking water that will dematerialize seems risky to me
Say you sell your water like you wanted to and everyone is drinking that, and for some reason your ability gets canceled (u die/get knocked out/your nen gets stolen/your nen gets blocked/you lose your nen/etc.), all of this h2o dematerializes and everyone who has bought from you instantly dehydrates and dies or is in a lot of danger
From a business standpoint this is probably bad and very risky (lawsuits/loss of consumer/loss of company credibility)
Based on the condition for your ability (which is much needed) whether it be a certain volume/day, certain amount of time of existence, or another misc. condition, it will limit and probably end your business plan
A while ago, I was thinking about something like this, say a conjured water molecule was in the body, and some type of reaction occurs, can the molecule even undergo a reaction? say it can and a hydrolysis rxn occurs and the conjured h's and o are split up and in molecules with other real atoms, say the conjurer dematerializes the ability and these atoms disappear, then what happens, the molecules lacking whatever atom disappeared now is in a highly reactive state or something and bad things happen, idk, im thinking about this too much lol, its probably that conjured molecules cannot react as normal real molecules, which would mean that drinking your water would accomplish nothing, you could make it a commodity with the taste transmution i guess, but why not just buy the normal drink lol
---------- Post added at 07:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:16 PM ----------
Hatsu: Gender Bender
Description: You have control of someone's gender
The condition is met you have to strike with an nen imbued punch/kick/hit/poke/etc. to the head, throat, both breats, stomach, and crotch
When condition is met, user is able to change the victim's gender once (does not have to be male/female, can be half n half, or whatever)
This could be used in a fight with a girl to give them balls and then kick them there, or in a fight with a guy, use the ability to mess with their psyche
About leol's water, was he really conjuring it? Because just as he died his ability disappeared but not the water... If his ability disappeared then conjured water should have disappeared too. I doubt the water was the sort of nen that sticks, it didn't seem to do that at all. Perhaps the water simply being controlled by the conjured items? It had some limitations that could have aided with that IIRC.
The thing is, with my ability, Emission is a very low part of it, only to create the particles. The manipulation allows me to do whatever I want with it. But yeah, I guess that an Emitter might pull it off better than I.
With emission as your primary element you would get to maintain the force of the nen thingies at all times. You might even get bonus damage or strength from the hatsu benefits users sometimes get. Like when the manga said franklin got stronger nen bullets from cutting the tip of his fingers or what gon does with rock.
With manipulation as your primary element you would perhaps get more precise control over the pellets. It would be easier to construct things out of the pellets. Not sure how a hatsu bonus would work here although odds are you would be at a disadvantage in terms of offensive capacity against other fighters. In this case your ability might be better for things not related to fighting that require a more finesse. To put it in perspective, imagine being up against an emitter. If you attack being a manipulator you would be at 80% while the emitter will probably be at over 100% thanks to the hatsu thing. Even if you have your hatsu bonus going on you would still be at a disadvantage because it would be quite optimistic for you to get at 100% while the enemy is at any given point at over 100% at least.
So depending on what you want, I would argue you need emission ideally for fighting and manipulation for anything else.
Conjuring iron sand and controlling it via transmuted magnetism sounds cool although I am not sure of how useful it would be. If you really plan to use it at a range you would need emission which is weak for transmuters. So you would be limited to using it at close range which can perhaps be made to be very effective. Perhaps something like palms' hair technique which made a good armor (enough that she didn't have to worry about defense). You could use the transmuted nen to control the sand and make it into an armor which you can manipulate at will. You are close enough to enhancement too which should be very effective too. Reinforce the sand and you have a killer defense and offense added to the natural properties of the iron. In one go you can turn your sand armor into a reinforced blade or fist.... You can presumably do something similar with the original alternative though and it would be pretty effective too.
Kortopi has that 24 hours limit because he can basically create anything he can get his hands on, although it remains to be seen if he/she (I can´t remember now) can copy conjured items.
That would be the case if my ability was a Transmuter, but as a Conjurer an already conjured water exists even after my death.
Condition is not needed at all. You see condition is for people who need some kind of boost, let it be in battle, to make up for lack of time (they are in a hurry like Kurapika), to make up for a lack of a talent (a very tangible thing in this manga), but basically the more training and skill you have in Nen, the less conditions you need to set. I am working on the assumption that I need to train a lot for my ability precisely to circumvent these limitations and conditions.
Sadly we will never get an answer to that. Ever. Togashi is obviously done with the normal Nen system, he already moved on the ability Nen system, it is going to be all Hatsus from now on