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i'm not saying bagram is for a fusion road either... i'm saying that bagram is a fusion of multiple cores. does it have to carry abilities of the other cores? no, it doesn't. what it does carry is the sky regalia functions/access that the other cores had. there are 2 parts that the regalia core is responsible for, the full capability use of the infinite atmosphere (all sub regalias can do it but it quickly breaks down the a-ts so use is limited) and the other is some sort of access/function of the sky regalia. minami used the other cores and fused them but the only infinite atmosphere usage he gave it was related to the wind road, but bagram carries the 21 core's worth of sky regalia access/functions.
this is also the contrast i was comparing to kururu, in that she is likely making the storm regalia to bring together the different infinite atmosphere usage more so than the combining of sky regalia access/functions. the storm regalia will have an infinite atmosphere different from all others if kururu is going from that approach of making the regalia for ikki.
nike and sora had their own wind type regalia (not shared or half of one) and then it was put into making bagram along with the other regalia cores they collected and then it became bagram which they shared half of when pursuing gazelle.
you should also keep in mind that earlier drawing styles of o!g in the series makes characters look 'older' than how they look in flashbacks in recent chapters, so you shouldn't compare how the characters 'look' when determining age. in some instances he makes them look too young or too old and it was really off when he did the inorganic net match and has the 6yrs ago versions of old sf members.
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_gear/v28/c266/9.html<-- 1 year before series starts
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_g...5/c035/21.html<-- start of the series
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_g...9/c270/18.html<-- 6 months since start of series (approx 6 months passed in story time)
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_gear/v28/c266/7.html<--1 year before series starts
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_gear/v05/c040/6.html<--start of the series
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_g...6/c042/18.html<--6 yrs ago flashback in early chapters
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_g...7/c154/14.html<--6 yrs ago flashback in mid-recent chapters
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_g...6/c042/20.html<--6yrs ago flashback early in the series
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_g...7/c154/13.html<--6yrs ago flashback in mid-recent chapters
sora and rika in inorganic net match which is based on their 6yrs ago appearance:
Yeah, good point, but we still can't be sure that there were two different Wind Regalia versions before. What Dr. Minami said still leaves some things vague.
And wasn't the Gazelle and Kaito flashback dated back to ten years ago? The older Sora in Sleeping Forest is four years older than back then.
Last edited by DragonOsman2; October 23, 2011 at 06:20 AM.
the flashback of sora receiving bagram from minami (and the writing of 'welcome to nightmare') would be before sora had chased after gazelle and forming sf would have come sometime during the later half of chasing gazelle or sometime after she killed herself, so we are putting these scenes within a year of each other:
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_g...4/c118/16.html <--before going after gazelle
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_gear/v30/c299/4.html <--pursuing gazelle
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_g...7/c153/15.html <--after gazelle dies/before sf is formed
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_g...7/c154/13.html <--sora during team when rika joins
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_gear/v24/c218/4.html <--sora during the team when rika joins...
if you compare the 1st two links, he's supposed to be the same if not younger in the first than the second link. there's a significant difference in the last two scenes and how they are drawn... sora is supposed to be the same age in the last 2 links, but he clearly looks like an adult in the later chapter. this is all typical artist evolution of style but at the same time there's a bit of o!g fail in consistency.
now, sf with rika lasted for about roughly a year and a half at most and sora should have been past puberty when rika joined because they are supposed to be 3~6 years older than rika was (rika never went to high school which would have started at about 15-16 yrs old in japan; guys typically hit puberty roughly around 13 yrs and finish around 17 yrs).
i agree that we will likely never know how many variations could have been made for a certain type, but i think there was at least 2 wind type regalias in the beginning (owned by sora and nike since they were adept at 'grasping wind'). at this point, we don't know whether they were the same or if they were different variations... in the end, all we ever see is bagram which is the multi core regalia that has a wind type infinite atmosphere use but contains all the function/access to the sky regalia of 21 cores.
If you look at the fully activated form of Bagram, all it really is is just a pair of wings. That's the Wing Road's thing. The other cores don't seem to be influencing that. Either this is also an O!G fail, or he just now added the part about Bagram being made of 21 cores and was never thinking of this in the beginning. The current Wind Regalia is made solely for running on the Wing Road and manipulating the wind, too, and the other cores only seem to be adding in more defense capabilities, going by the barrier the Wind Regalia made for Sora at the bottom of the Tower.
And Sora and Nike seem to be in their early teens in the flashback in which they're chasing Gazelle. And when Sora received the 21 core Bagram from Dr. Minami, he seemed to be in his late teens or early twenties. If you're about that inconsistency only being either an O!G fail or an evolution in the art style, then okay, but I can't be sure as of yet.
Anyway, the term they use to refer to a Road's way of utilizing the air/wind is "Infinity Atmosphere". The word infinite is used only when talking about a particular Road's Infinity Atmosphere, but not all Roads have infinite as part of the name, but infinity. Like "Infinity Cage" (Bloody Road), and "Infinite Scale" (Ring Road). There's also "Infinite Chain - Turquoise Sonia" (Sonia Road--though, that was Ringo's one, and her Thorn Regalia doesn't have an actual core in it; we'll need to see Rika's Infinity Atmosphere Trick, I guess, or maybe Gazelle's if possible). The Wing Road's Infinity Atmosphere Trick, if I've heard right, is "Infinity Airdoor - Moonstruck Numberless Grappler". The main Infinity Atmosphere Trick is "Moonstruck Numberless Grappler," and according to Air Gear Wiki, the name of the Infinity Atmosphere of the Wing Road is "Infinity Airdoor".
LOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL ITS JUST YOU TWO ON THIS THREAD. Imo you guys should forward this to OG and make his brain explode@###@##$#$$
Well I think the main reason why the Bagram is still running on the Wind instead of it running also on the other roads is that Minami just incorporated the 21 cores into it. He didn't make it a NEW regalia. It is still Bagram. Kururu's Storm Regalia, on the other hand is very different. It has the design of the Bagram, but she made it very different from the Bagram. Before Kururu received the Rumble Regalia, the Storm Regalias' design was already made. What Kururu did was incorporate the other runs of the regalias into the Storm in addition to the pre-designed Storm Regalia.
In the chapter in which she is told that she could use the original Rumble Regalia, she seemingly starts to think that her original design for the Storm Regalia would be trumped if she were to combine the mechanism of the "Wind" with the mechanism of the "Rumble". And we saw one wheel of the Storm Regalia core already, when it'd gotten damaged after getting to the aircraft carrier; it seemed to have a replica of Bagram combined with the Rumble Regalia core. What I'm trying to get at, is that even if she did make the Storm Regalia different in the way you say she must have, she still probably did combine the other cores into the Storm core that we saw (half of) already. And the Hurricane Road could still just be Wing Road+Over Road; if it is, then that means that the other cores have been added only to augment that. Probably in the same that the other cores combined into Bagram augmented the Wing Road.
And it's "Storm Regalia's". That word is a collective noun, we're not supposed add an S to make it plural.
thinking over the last few recent chapters and the dialogue about gravity and such i've come up with a new theory:
going back to that diagram of the roads or regalia (not sure which), we have the central symbol representing the true goal of all a-t/grav kid research - energy efficiency & defying gravity aka the sky. there are 6 main components that tie into gravity and thus the key to understanding gravity - wind, flame, gem, thunder, rumble, fang - then we have thorn which is representing anti-gravity and pledge which is the component to connect all of them. those 8 components are the first branching concepts in the diagram.
gem: free fall (kanji used with gem in minami's explanation), motion of mass where gravity is the only force acting on it initially. gem is the only solid mass concept among the roads and therefore can experience free fall due to gravity. free fall in absence of other forces except gravity leads to weightlessness (because air won't be whipping around the object falling, it would feel like floating).
rumble: centrifuge (kanji used with rumble in minami's explanation), an object in rotation around a fixed axis. this relates to the obvious shape of the rumble regalia as a turbine (and in yoshitsune's version a ram jet which is accomplishes the same task without the turbines). artificial gravity can be achieved by use of centrifugal force.
fang: thrust (kanji used with fang in minami's explanation), a reactional force from a system that expelled/accelerates mass. airplanes are able to acheive flight by using thrust to gain lift which over powers gravity.
flame: oscillation (kanji used with flame in minami's explanation), the repetitive measurement between two or more different states. flame shape formation and efficiency affected by gravity. in gravity, flames rise upwards due to it being lighter than the denser air surrounding it - the gravity is causing bouyancy.
wind: lifting power (kanji used with wind in minami's explanation), by creating differences in pressure (an airfoil for planes) an upward force is created that will oppose gravity. air is the most prevalent mass that affects free fallling objects.
thunder: electromagnetism (kanji used with thunder in minami's explanation), the interaction between electrically charged particles. electromagnetic force can be attractive or repulsive, but gravity is always attractive.
thorn: anti-gravity (as described in minami's explanation), a space or mass that is free/independent from the force of gravity.
pledge: to spin (furigana alongside kanji for pledge), like the spinning of yarn which can be an analogy of creating the link the ties the other concepts together.
each of those 8 concepts have 2 branching corrollaries that relate to physics which in turn relate back to the concept of gravity but i will do that later... it's late and my mind is fried from looking all of this up.
Thanks for this, it's quite insightful (the part about which Regalia is for what purpose in defying gravity).
Though, didn't we already know all of that? It does seem that the Pledge Regalia has two branching Regalia whose Roads are related to the Ring Road in function (probably), which were the ones taken by Sora, when he took all of those cores that have been combined into Bagram.
well, in the english translations, it was translated with just the regalia types with no indication of the kanji meaning that o!g was trying to associate with. so to anyone who can't read japanese will miss out on this and that's why i wanted to throw this out here for everyone. there's some related topics to each of these concepts that would more or less fit into the 2 branches from the first 8 concepts and i'll get those posted sometime later tonight because it was a lot of research in just trying to see how it relates to gravity.
as for one of the incorporated cores into bagram, having one of them being associated to the ring road would make sense because that's really the only way we've seen in the series to 'connect' other pieces together.
this is gonna be a pain in the butt... but i like digging for info~
the concept of oscillation is represented by flame. it would be more appropriate to label it more as thermodynamics since the result of oscillations of molecules/mass will create energy. the 2 branching corrollaries are heat and flame/combustion.
flame/combustion corrollary: defined as an exothermic chemical reactions between a fuel and an oxidant. the result is light in the form of a 'glow' or an actual flame. going into thermodynamics, the flame/combustion is merely the changing of energy in one form into another - which in this case will be some mass to heat and fire. this is greatly effected by gravity as the resulting mass has become lighter than the environment it is in and therefore will rise up. its not that gravity has no hold on it, but that gravity is pulling down the denser air which forcefully push the less denser fire upwards - a bouyancy effect.
strangely enough, flame/combustion is tied more to energy efficiency as the event of combustion creates usable energy in human society. a flame in micro/zero gravity burns more efficiently because the combustion products are not 'carried' away from the fuel source like it does in gravity.
heat corrollary: defined as energy transferred from one body or system to another. this is the final result of flame/combustion but can be generated independently from it. gravity itself can create heat; if you drop an object it will 'warm up' due to the energy being created as it falls.
basically, heat is the bridge of changing what currently exists into something else. to defy gravity can't magically just happen, there must be a way to convert what energy is available and bound by gravity into an energy that can defy gravity.
how does this tie into the flame regalia that currently exists? in the wonderful world of air gear, we have kazu fully demonstrate the combustion and heat corrollaries when he activates the flame regalia. the obvious flames that are emitted from the regalia while activated and the use of the 'energy' stored in lon houtz bourne street data into 'energy' he used to fight nike. i wonder if o!g actually thought real hard about all of these roads and regalia and his sudden revelation of how it all ties back to understanding and defying gravity...
doing one concept and its corrollaries was more time consuming than i thought so i'll just churn them out one by one...
Last edited by suarhnir; October 30, 2011 at 02:03 AM.
Heat and combustion both tie into the Flame Road itself, as does "Time," so they're not really branching concepts, are they? Or were you not going for that? If you weren't, then sorry; I seem to have misunderstood something earlier. The Speed Regalia and the Solar Regalia, it seems, are the ones that have concepts that branch off from that of the Flame Regalia.
i'm not regarding roads with these corrollaries and a true corrollary is something that readily follows from a previous concept. the original concept is actually fire (one form of oscillation since molecules are quickly 'shaking' when in a state of fire), and the two concepts that directly associate to it are heat and combustion which in turn follow into thermodynamics. i'm not heavily following the road concepts in this diagram, just the concepts as far as how it would connect to gravity as i had said when i decided to look at the diagram in a different way. also oscillation is far too broad if i started there instead of honing into fire because oscillations can easily go into electromagnetism which is supposed to be it's own separate concept. i am disregarding the regalias we know of because it would make me try to mold the stuff i'm looking up into fitting that instead of being more objective about this. after we've covered all the bases, we can discuss what regalia is connected to what.
Ah, okay. I get it now.
Hey, I think you got these two interchanged.Quote:
Rumble is Thrust.
Recall Rumble Wall and the Windmill effect.
The Windmill absorbs the wind used by the opponent and throws it back.
The Rumble Wall creates a wall of wind strong enough to deflect anything else.
The Rumble regalia is a turbine that thrusts air.
Fang is Centrifugal Force,
Imagine how Fang's tricks are all used.
They use a spinning motion, kicks and flips to perform them.
The Fang regalia is composed of wheels spinning going at 0-max-0 to deliver the force gathered through centrifugal motion.
Actually, a Fang is based mainly on thrusting since, if you pay attention, they mainly use kicking motions after making 0-100-0 braking inertial energy. Suahrnir didn't interchange or flip anything, she's exactly right. Turbines and ramjets create spinning motions for power, rotation on a fixed axis, and that's centrifuge. Not to mention, Suahnir can read Japanese. She said all of that based on her understand of kanji, hiragana, and furagana, and also what Dr. Minami said when he explained the six powers that oppose gravity, as well as the Thorn and Pledge. Suahnir is explaining what the Japanese characters associated with the words Dr. Minami used to describe the aspects of the powers of the eight Regalia were. Those characters weren't translated in a way that we could've seen what they are or what they actually mean, but Suahnir was able to read them and tell us what they mean and what they indicate as to what the Regalia powers are and role they play in opposing gravity.