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Haha I'd agree with you if it was anything more then inconsistency driven hatred. Where as with Sasuke it's more of a plot driven hatred. Out of everyone from team 7 minus Kakashi and Sai, Sasuke is the most consistant. as far as his character goes. Yeah there isn't much to him besides his goal but at least he is straight forward. Kishimoto acts like he can't keep to the resolutions he sets for Naruto or Sakura. Sakura ultimately went from "we'll get stronger together Naruto. " to "ill leave it to Naruto and Sasuke." What the hell was the point in making her character go though everything she did, if She was just gonna end up right back where she started, looking at Naruto and Sasuke's respective back's?
Naruto is just gonna be fucked till his last fight of the manga because he is Sasuke's polar opposite to his very core and despite the resolutions and break throughs Kishimoto has Naruto go through he keeps showing that very thing. Naruto keeps having moments where he says or he imply's that he'll do better in the future. Great but even if it starts to look like it Kishimoto brings him right back to dobe. So how the hell are we suppose to take any damn thing he says seriously? Especially when he gets his ass kicked, but acts like he can handle things. I seriously started disliking him as a character because of that shit. Don't try to act like you're the shit after somebody just handed you your own ass, it's so stupid.
Another member put it into perspective for me, saying that Kishimoto has Naruto and Sasuke so far rooted in there respective roles that he can't or won't bring either of them to a point where it seems like he's breaking that trend. Even if it means he makes naruto look like an inept asshole when it isn't necessary. I'm paraphrasing of course.
The one thing I can say for Naruto and Sakura is that they have more to their characters than Sasuke at the moment. But I'm not sure which is the better trade off.
Originally Posted by KiSwordsman
I dunno if it was my post you're referring to, but I'm taking credit for it because I posted the exact same thing somewhere and got like a bajillion thanks for it, so I'm assuming you're one of the ones that thanked my post, lol.
---------- Post added at 12:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:41 PM ----------
Okay so I'm mistaken. But my first post in that thread (last paragraph) says the same exact thing.
Also Danzo never posses mangekyo of shisui, you keep talking about "DNA CELLS" the fact it was stated there by Tobi DNA Cells of Shodaime was just IMPLANTED to danzou right arm where his sharingan implanted, If Danzou know how to activate Mangekyo sharingan he would been easily activated those 10 Sharingan on his right arm where this SHodaime DNA Cells located. Danzou doesn't have shodaime chakra entire his body only on his right arm. If Danzou had it shodaime chakra he would have been able to use at least wood release just like Yamato.
The only jutsu that Danzou had was Wind + Sharingan Izanagi using Shodaime cells on his arm. That was it. There no way kotoamatsuki which is stated by Itachi it was Mangekyo abilities...
If Danzou can use Mangekyo he would have done it already. He didnt even use shisui sharingan in the fight against sasuke. Why not use it if he knows his dying already?.
Last edited by Lemonadez; January 12, 2012 at 11:36 PM.
you forgot two things which sasuke lost:
manda and one of his wings against deidara
and his CS against itachi
Those aren't fights, so they don't count. For me.
Last edited by M3J; January 13, 2012 at 11:42 PM.
And though alot of you will disagree, but every time Naruto unintentionally transformed into tailed forms, his skin continuously peeled off and repaired. Is it different from what Bee does? Could be since he has full co operation with Bee, or his mode differs etc But IMO having your skin continuously peeled off will hurt.
Ohh, And Naruto had trouble with a holding back Pein and would have died, even with his "Free power up" he would have been completely trolled by Nagato with little effort and against Tobi and his Jins, Naruto would have most likely lost had it not been for Kakashi and Gai.
Naruto has looked bad and will continuously look bad no matter what power up he gets
Last edited by jaymizzo; January 13, 2012 at 11:56 PM.
The Kyuubi is still more of a powerup than Sharingan. Sasuke could have EMS but if his chakra gets closed by Neji, he'd lose. Naruto however, can get Kyuubi's chakra to help him out if his chakra path gets closed.
So far, it doesn't look like it has. Maybe Kyuubi did mess with Naruto's chakra control a bit, but it's benefited him more than harm him. It's healed every injuries Naruto has gotten. In cloaked mode, it's increased Naruto's speed, regenerative abilities, and strength. Sharingan can't do all that, nor could it heal the hole Sasuke popped in Naruto.
Naruto's done that twice, so far. The price of that isn't really immediate, though it may be if Yamato uses his Mokuton. Naruto's powerup is far more free than Sasuke's, especially since he at first needed to do nothing but feel strong emotion or be in danger. Then bam, he got saved. Sasuke still had trouble and didn't get saved at times with new powerup he unlocked. Still got taken out by Haku and Rock Lee, and Bee managed to get away while Sasuke retreated against Raikage adn others.
Naruto however, won all his fights with his powerup. Naruto didn't really use Kyuubi until he raged, and even then it was twice (to resist Nagato's rod). The troll thing is questionable as for some stupid reason, Kishi decided to dumb Naruto up during the fight. Against Tobi and jinchuuriki, it was possible he could have lost, but the Kyuubi was coming around. Chances are Naruto might have gotten swallowed, and Kyuubi somehow sent Naruto to Hyperbolic Chamber to talk with bijuu.
The point is, you can't really accuse Sasuke of getting free powerups and then claim Naruto worked hard for his or not even mention Naruto as well, especially not when Kyuubi was the gamechanger for Naruto and kept him alive.
Kyuubi really did more good than harm to Naruto, since he saved him against Haku, Neji, Gaara, Sasuke and Pein.
Still saying that Kyuubi is a free power-up more strong than the sharingan is, imho, BS.
And I'll explain why:
Kyuubi's powers and downsides:
- Enhanced regeneration
- Fox Cloak - Protective powers
- Fox Cloak - Augmentation of physical abilities
- Additional chakra
- Chakra Mode - Ultra speed
- Chakra Mode - Additional arms
- Bijuu Mode - Bijuudama
- Harm on Naruto when using tails cloak
- becoming less and less rational
- screwed up chakra control
- Chakra Mode - The bijuu eats up your chakra, risk of death
- Chakra Mode - The regeneration isn't present anymore
Sharingan Powers and Downsides:
- Ability to copy any jutsu
- Seeing chakra
- Anticipating any action of the enemy
- Genjutsu with just a look
- Immunity almost total to enemy Genjutsu
- MS - Amaterasu
- MS - Tsukuyomi
- MS - Susano'o
- EMS - New eye power
- MS - Going blind with the use
I mean, seriously?
And I believe ppl believe that Sasuke gets random powers up since, when we see it, he naturally developed only his base sharingan.
The MS ( and EMS later ) was given to him by his brother, free of charge. The fact that he was going blind was irrilevant since Itachi provided him with his eyes
The Cursed Seal was given to him by Orochimaru, free of charge. The fact that it may have enslaved him doesn't count, since it didn't prevent him to freely experiment with it, as proven by his partial transformation with Juugo.
While Naruto's power up aren't as cheap-looking as Sasuke, since while Kyuubi was given to him by the beginning, he had to fight the strongest bijuu, and even with the help of Kushina and Bee controlling Kyuubi wasn't an easy thing ( creating 1000 clones and bombarding Kyuubi with Oodama Rasengans, using two Rasenshurikens, the whole pulling ).
As well as Sage Mode, it wasn't bestowed upon him by Ma and Pa ( they didn't bit him, giving him a mark ), he had to work for it, and even then Kyuubi prevented him to fuse with the two elders, thus impeding a permanent Sage Mode and forcing him to find a way to efficently use it, since it lasts only 5 minutes, and without throwing Rasenshurikens.
I personally believe that they're equally haxed characters, but saying that Sasuke had less free powers up than Naruto I can't really agree with it, as well as saying that Kyuubi is more haxed than the Sharingan.
Take away Kyuubi from Naruto, and we have a Kage level ninja with his perpetual Sage Mode. Take away the Sharingan from any Uchiha ( or Kakashi for that matter ), and they become normal Jounin at best, elite if we're talking about Sasuke and Itachi, since they're a rarity even among Uchihas.
The kyuubi did mess with Narutos chakra and IMO diminished his own chakra reserved because Naruto had to subconciously keep the Kyuubi at bay for; Again 15 years. Still having to transform into the kyuubi unintentionally did harm Naruto.
The only difference the kyuubi has with the sharingan is that its not genetic. Using the kyuubi has always strained Naruto, and had he not been the guy he is today, the Kyuubi would have leeched on all his chakra, and by now... He would be dead. Having a great influencial personality doesnt count towards a power up. The kyuubi knows it could always come back after a certain period if Naruto dies. But like i said, Narutos own personality influenced the kyuubi into him liking him. That really shouldnt count as a free powerup.
Sasukes powers are much much more OP than Narutos. Only difference is that Sasukes powers have a notable immediate consequence than Narutos. And the only consequence i see that Sasuke has that Naruto never had was going blind. The strain he gets, be it eye or cellular could be argued as an equivalent to Naruto pain, be it his belly burning or his skin continuously peeling off. Yet i never said Sasuke has more free power ups... Im the one always saying they are just fortunate to have what they have so lets not try and nitpick the little details to downplay the other.
MS wasn't given to him for free. Sasuke had to fight Itachi and was pushed pretty far. Even then he most likely wouldn't have gotten MS if Tobi hadn't told him the truth, as there would have been no trauma for Sasuke to feel. For MS, Sasuke suffered emotionally and physically. The EMS isn't necessarily a free powerup as Sasuke resorted to EMS because he was gonig blind.Quote:
The Cursed Seal wasn't free either. It restricted his chakra abilities so he'd be forced to rely on the Cursed Seal. Even after getting to Level 2, Sasuke paid for using it by being in pain, and we even see the effect after the fight with Naruto ended. Although he freely experimented with it, we don't know if he had to pay the price. Kinda like Naruto experimenting with FRS, but I think he paid the price whenever it was successful, though the price may have been only when he hit someone with it.
Despite powerups, Sasuke didn't come out on top. He was saved by his teammates against Bee, who wasn't even going all out. Raikage's anger is what saved Sasuke, most likely, but even he needed help. If Karin and Juugo weren't there against Bee, Sasuke would have died. Naruto however, wouldn't have died thanks to Kyuubi's regenerative powers. We saw him get healed when he was damaged and even had a hole in his body, for no cost, without any medical ninjas. The Kyuubi has given Naruto tons of wins and made him look good in battles, while Sasuke still had trouble even with MS. Naruto is more immortal than Sasuke.
[quote]The kyuubi did mess with Narutos chakra and IMO diminished his own chakra reserved because Naruto had to subconciously keep the Kyuubi at bay for; Again 15 years. Still having to transform into the kyuubi unintentionally did harm Naruto. [/quote[
It's your opinion though, it's not necessarily a fact. I don't think it really affected his chakra reserves, especially since the seal was there to make sure the Kyuubi didn't break free. Minato allowed some of Kyuubi's chakra to mix with Naruto's, but I don't think Naruto's had to keep the Kyuubi at bay until he used his power.
It did, but it was only when Yamato suppressed the Kyuubi that we saw a price paid, and that's because the chakra was forcibly suppressed. MS has a more immediate price that lasts for a long time.
When did it strain Naruto? He could use the Kyuubi without a problem, usually. I doubt the Kyuubi would've killed him when Tobi was his only other option.Quote:
Yet hatred is a free powerup? Naruto didn't have to do anything, just say a few words and instantly got the benefit of no chakra taken.
How is it overpowered? If Sasuke runs out of chakra, he's in trouble. If Naruto runs out, Kyuubi will still help.Quote:
Every time Sasuke uses MS, he gets that pain. Naruto only gets it if he goes past 3rd tail, which is rare.
While you may not say it, others do. It's annoying to see Naruto or Sasuke get attacked while the other gets away. Plus, I like arguing.