I mean I feel really trolled by this whole thousand-of-secret-Sharingan-jutsus, Madara-Rinnegan-Senju-thing, Edo-Tensei, Susanoo, still not knowing Tobi's real identity, Naruto getting best friends with kyuubi in almost no time (imo it was to fast/rushed)... ^^'
I think I can go on with Kishi's trolling, but I'm a fking lazy guy xP
Pfft, I read Naruto so it's not troll.
Seriously though, the story has been messed up. This whole Kyuubi 180 turn is utter bullshit (why can't Kishi let Kyuubi act the way he did in Part I when Naruto asked him for chakra?), and the focus on Sasuke is too much, in my opinion. I dunno why Sasuke became a part of main character, though I admit I wanna see Naruto and Sasuke fighting together again.
EVEN MADARA STANDS NO CHANCE
What's trolling about someone with the Sharingan pulling out a new jutsu from nowhere? The Sharingan originated from a doujutsu that literally gives you access to every chakra path in history and thus the ability to use ANY jutsu. On top of that, the Uchiha clan's powers originated from Rikudou's eldest son who's power is the spiritual aspect of Banbutsu Souzou (the power to create all things).
That means, basically, that "if you can imagine it, you can do it." I mean hell, it's the very same power that gave the bijuu form. The power that created the tailed beasts. And it's not like these new jutsu are costless. Anything that results in blindness, death, or loss of an eye can NOT be considered as hax as people keep making it out to be.
Just because the Sharingan is a decendant of the Rinnengan should not mean that it can do whatever and we have to go with it. Well at this point nothing really bothers me anymore, im giving Naruto the Bleach treatment, going in without expecting any consistency or logical outcome.
The Manga just became bleh when this whole Hate, Love, Peace nonsense escaladed and the introduction of the child of the prophecy, that completely killed any form of distinction in Naruto as a unique hardworking character. It seems that his destiny was set in stone and he is just playing out according to some script, i wish it was like Part 1, where Sharingans were rare and there were no Mountain leveling attacks.
Last edited by jaymizzo; August 16, 2012 at 01:08 AM.
Very very few have shown to break out of Itachi's genjutsu. only Sasuke was able to do it, and he had Sharingan. Why should Minato do what even Orochimaru couldn't do and break out of genjutsu when he's shown no skills nor has his skills in genjutsu been mentioned?
Actually, Kyuubi doing 360 or 720 turn would mean it'd end up in the same place - 180 is a semicircle while 360 is a circle, 540 is a circle and semi circle while 720 is two full circles.
See? This is what I mean't about not understanding what the tears are about. You were supposed to explain how having an ability so powerful you can only use it once every 10 years (Kotoamatsukami) twice in a lifetime (Izanagi, Izanami) is comparable to the Kyuubi in haxness. The most you could muster is "Because it IS!" In what universe is this an argument?Originally Posted by jaymizzo
As for accepting Naruto's haxness, I couldn't care less if it doesn't result in less complaining about the Sharingan. Complaining about them both equally simply means twice the complaining. I'm sure we've got enough of that around here.
Except it doesn't do "whatever" without a grand price. The price paid for these abilities is too great to look at them with the kind of ire they get.Quote:
Last edited by ninjabot; August 16, 2012 at 01:41 AM.
Izanagi and Izanami can actually be used more than twice per lifetime, and KA is an unsure thing. We know it takes ten years for anyone else.
Izanagi though, depends, I guess. Not sure if the eye that got Izana- can be replaced.
Plus, EMS doesn't have a price. It's like the Kyuubi, but less free.
Izanagi and Izanami can only be used more than twice a lifetime if you take eyes from other Uchiha. I didn't include this because it's something that a non-Uchiha can exploit aswell (proven by Danzou). Ditto for Kotoamatsukami's cooldown time only being extended if Senju DNA is given to an Uchiha. And it hasn't been confirmed that an EMS eye can use either of these jutsu without losing it's light.
All of these horrible story-breaking hax abilities you're talking about only reach their levels of haxness thanks to outside help. And EMS doesn't have a price? I'd consider taking someone's eyes to be quite the cost. It's yet again a power that can't be accessed without outside influences. Whereas we've already established earlier in this very thread that the only effort needed to make the Kyuubi useful is for it's host to get emotional.
Why would it take Shisui ten years to use a KA? Makes sense for someone else even if Uchiha, but Shisui should be able to do it more often.
Sasuke and Madara never got blind, lost their eyesight, or commented on it after getting EMS. Madara at the least would prove that no light is lost with EMS.
Kyuubi is an outside help though. And I've always said it was more haxxed than EMS. But, getting EMS isn't as hard. Madara apparently got it from his willing brother while Sasuke got it from a dead Itachi.
Well its true that Naruto is not only "frienship and sparky powers!" but its the main drive, just like every manga.
It had the potential to go beyond, back in part 1
Someone who sees a guy enclosed in a pyramid of sand and thinks that's his body?Quote:
Naruto wasn't that dumb back in the days, now Kishi believes that making him a retarded would be funny
True, but that wasn't him using willingly that power ( except against Neji ), that was him going berserk.Quote:
He had to grow strong without Kyuubi, that's what I meant.
But still of course its his main power now, and would be enormously weakened by the loss of it
He would require immense chakra capacity to stop Susano'o, if he couldn't stop TayuyaQuote:
If Orochimaru did the smart thing and didn't train Sasuke to be a beast then rest assured he would've took that body, it was mainly Oro's fault that he got absorbed.Quote:
It lasted the whole Kabuto sob flashback,and Itachi doesn't have sensing abilities, that was Nagato
He used it against Oro, Deidara, Itachi, Bee, A ( tried to ), Shi and Danzou.Quote:
So basically every single relevant fight he had in part 2.
He tried, and Sasuke reversed the jutsu on him.
Just creating FRS required insane chakra control ( remember that the Rasengan, according to Naruto, required enormous concentration ), he evolved it so much he can throw it.Quote:
FRS by itself was thought impossible, a throwing FRS was even more difficult and impressive. Naruto's chakra control is theorically beastly
It killed Deva realmQuote:
I just hope Kishi will not pull a Harry Potter and name that poor kid Minato Jiraiya Uzumaki Albus Severus Potter was the most ugly, retarded and disgusting name an author could think of.Quote:
True that, even though Jiraiya did say that he mastered every jutsu he teached him. Shame he didn't show even one
Well because he had only 1 fight and a half, you can't judge based on that.Quote:
Would people judge Sasuke negatively if they only saw Sasuke vs Itachi?
I don't think so
I understand the lineage and everything, it still doesn't change the fact that the Rin'negan can't pull half the shit the Sharingan can pull off, I mean S/T jutsus? Unbreakable and undetectable genjutsus? Black flames?
A ninja that has Obito's eyes would wreck a Rin'negan user with an incredible ease just to make an example, that's why a lot of people are displeased by it.
To say that the Kyuubi is more haxed ( obviously ) does not change the fact that the Sharingan is ultra overpowered.
Naruto is justified in his ultra hax by the fact he has a giant fox of doom sealed in his belly, and thus it isn't only him at work.
Narutos control over the kyuubis chakra was meant to kill him if he used too much of it, its just that the Kyuubi decided to help him out. So its not like using the kyuubi would have been any less easier for anyone else.
You can use the basic version of KM without needing a cooldown, You can completely nullify the side effects of both Izanami and Izanagi by having a stock of eyes, which as we have seen is not exactly impossible to come by.
All the side effects of the Sharingan jutsu can be nullified (atleast so far) maybe not Susano'o but that seems to not matter much any more.
The kyuubi does not grant Naruto a second life nor the ability to completely control someones reality or does it decide ones fate. It does not, until now grant Naruto any form of godly defence that is basically impenetrable nor does it give him any more Jutsus. It only increases his speed, Chakra reserves and regeneration powers. Not much more. It iis sure as hell not as much as the Sharingan grants, especially at later stages.
You choose to ignore that the Sharingan is indeed haxxed but do not want to overlook Narutos power.Quote:
You can keep telling yourself that the Sharingan is not as haxxed, but the truth is in the manga. Using things like its side effects does not make it any less haxxed.
If your a good Sharingan user, then these effects do not mean much. If you have a stock of eyes they also do not mean much.Quote:
Look at Kakashi, he is using Kamui like its nothing now.
Izanagi... Izanami... Nope. That's only two jutsu that are usuable with the Sharingan. The problem here is, inorder to give themselves an argument, people take the MS levels of the Sharingan and adds those 3 abilities under "just Sharingan" to make it look more hax. Even then, that's:Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood
That's 7 jutsu out of a manga that's been going on what... 12 years? 13? And no one person can have access to all of these abilities at any given time. They have to either have rare eyes, or take someone elses eyes that allow that power.
You're comparing Amaterasu to the ability to create a moon? SQUASH an entire village? Revive the dead? Steal souls? Devour chakra to refuel yourself? Arm yourself with an army of giants? All with less than half the chakra it takes to use ONE Amaterasu? You guys...Quote:
Izanagi and Izanami both require sacrificing an eye. Kotoamatsukami has a 10 year time limit. And Susanoo, Amaterasu, Kamui, and Tsukuyomi all require massive amounts of chakra drain to use. Every single ability has a massive side effect. Blindness only being removed if capable of gaining access to more eyes. And now that we know that the power to use Kamui DOESN'T come from training, but rather Obito's eyes, there's no point in trying to play up it's hax as broad Sharingan haxness.Originally Posted by jaymizzo
Ah yes, that so-called side effect that was rendered completely moot once we found out that being an Uzumaki grants one longer life span than the average ninja. Yes, using the Kyuubi would have been less easier for anyone else, because there' lifespan would have shortened more than Naruto's, and if they lost their hosts they would die as quickly as Gaara did, whereas an Uzumaki would survive (ala Kushina).Quote:
When have we ever seen Kotoamatsukami used without a cooldown? Even with Hashirama DNA it takes a whole day. Likewise, you can't use Izanagi or Izanami multiple times without a constant stock of eyes. Who the hell's gonna let you sit and go through surgery mid-fight to gain new eyes to use Izanagi or Izanami again?Quote:
Only with aid from outside sources. Again, if there was an Uchiha in the middle of the fight (let's use Sasuke, since he isn't modefied yet) and he has to use Izanagi to save his own life, he's just systematically CRIPPLED his new fighting style, since he can't use Susanoo anymore and has loss whatever ability that one eye was used for (potentially Amaterasu, potentially Tsukuyomi and Kagutsuchi).Quote:
He doesn't need a second life if he can heal from the injuries in the first place without crippling his fighting capabilities. If Naruto lost access to all of his Rasengan once he healed from an injury or used a Bijuudama you'd understand why no one could call Kurama hax: because the price for usage would be far too great. But thats not the case. Kurama's powers are throw-away in nature and can be used without any real danger to the user. Sharingan has been, from day one, a double-edged sword. Except one edge of the sword is serated and covered in poison, and twists whenever the Uchiha hits themself with it.Quote:
Because Naruto's power doesn't come with the same detrimental side effects that the Sharingan does. You see what the Sharingan does. Not the price payed so that it can do what it does. And that's the problem.Quote:
I'm not telling myself. I'm telling you guys. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hax According to Urban Dictionary, simply having an advantage someone else doesn't have makes you "hax". It's also "hax" when you expect to be as dangerous as someone else and you're surprised to find out that that's not the case. And that's what it all boils down to: getting pissed off that the Sharingan has access to a more versatile display of abilities than Kurama does. It has nothing to do with the strength of these abilities because the strength of them is downplayed by the drastic weakness of the jutsu's aswell as the immense price payed. It's all about envy.Quote:
In closing, there's alot of ways to define hax, but when referring to the Sharingan, this one makes the most sense:
Hax 27 up, 23 down
A term used as an excuse, for example, if you suck at PvP in WoW, and lose in a duel, you might accuse the person of hacking as an excuse to deter attention away from your own failureness. Usually used jokingly, when the person knows they suck and just want to say something funny after being beat. Its ok. You'll be ok.
Winner: "Owned, bitch!"
Loser: "I call hax."
"It's ok Naruto fans. You'll be ok."
And not only that, but every single one of that powers you listed above bar Tsukuyomi and Kotoamatsukami have nothing to do with the base Sharingan powers at all.
Also chakra consumage became meaningless in the recent chapters, Sasuke didn't fell any drain whatsoever, Kakashi neither, Tobi neither, Naruto is fighting for 1 day straight, Bee is in Bijuu mode since the beginning of the fight, Gai used the Gates and he is perfectly ok.
You are comparing a legendary unique doujutsu to one that can alter one's own reality to the user's whim, to alter the enemy's reality to the user's whim, to phase and render every attack useless, to send anything in a separate dimension with an attack that can't be blocked, and that can create a chakra construct with the size and the power of a bijuu?Quote:
I'll agree with you that the Sharingan isn't the only haxed ability, sure, but to call the Sharingan not haxed is going a little bit too far imho
The sharingan seems to offer much more powers than the rinnengan does. Every sharingan seems unique. Tobi has had Obitos eye for ages and has no hint of blindness nor does it seem to even be an MS jutsu.
And like Uchiha_blood said, these costs mean nothing now. Sasuke went from feeling pain in every cell in his body to using a full formed Susano'o without even a flinch.
It was never stated that she was going to live through it (unless she had medical assistance) And the side effect is that the kyuubi drains your chakra, meaning it leaves you with nothing, and no chakra = death.Quote:
It does not take advanced surgery to pluck one eye out and one in as we saw during the Kakashi gaiden. A genin was able to do it for christ sake.Quote:
And who the hell is going to let you walk around after the kyuubi is ripped out of you or your chakra exhausted?
Izanagi and Izanami are reality changers, the cost is perfect for the amount of hax it does. And you forget, you can simply kill another Uchiha and use the eye for another Izanami/Izanagi. These two jutsus are the most haxxed in the Narutoverse, not even the Rinnengans ability match.
Again, if anyone else had the kyuubi and abused it like Naruto did, he would have died easily even before finishing the fight.Quote:
And heck, i would trade Amaterasu for Kamui any day.
But thats Naruto. Tobi, Itachi and Madara have had theyre sharingans for a very long time and they have had it active for ages, too much sharingan usage = blindness right? I only seem to remember Itachi having bad eye sight.Quote:
The price is greater than any sharingan price. Too much usage = Death. The only exception being Naruto. Longetivity does not save you from a sentenced death.Quote:
Your saying it so freely forgetting the fact that only Naruto has been able to utilize the Kyuubi to this extent and the only reason he is not dead is because the kyuubi has a soft spot for him.Quote:
The base sharingan has NO side effects for an Uchiha, its the later stages that seem to do that, but even then they become moot at some point.
Yes it does. You are simply not understanding the circumstances. Naruto is able to utilize the kyuubi to this extent because it has been explained. Naruto was able to utiilize SM the way he does and it was explained. He finds ways to go around those side effects. If it was anyone else, then they would end up dead if they tried what Naruto has.Quote:
Narutos powers DO have side effects. Your simply discarding them because Naruto has gone around them with PIS.
You are not serious... The sharingan has jutsus that make even the eye of Rikudou look completely childish. I mean seriously read what Uchiha_blood says, you cannot say anyone is jealous or pissed, its a simple fact that Sharingan seems to pop out jutsus out of nowhere.Quote:
Im sure you would be all happy and shizz if the Kyuubi granted Naruto the power to go into the past. - at the cost of losing a finger or an eye (which is replaceable)
It makes sense to you because you refuse to believe that and believe that the sharingans abilities are justifiable because of theyre side effects. You forget that Death > All sharingan side effects.Quote:
Weve been ok for a long time, thanks for your concern thoughQuote:
I say plot induced stupidity for reasons of humor.Quote:
Naruto back then was able to deduce that someone was goin to Izuna's house. He was able to deduce Rock Lee worked very hard just by seein the bruises on his hands. Same Naruto who came up with his version of rendan just by seeing Sasuke do it once. Same Naruto who predicted Neji would go after the Naruto that held back the least, and who could mess with Kiba psychologically.
GOOD OLD DAYS, MY FELLOW NARUTARD.
But it still helped him when he needed it. There was no risk involved at that time.Quote:
True, he did. He's good without the Kyuubi, and we have seen plenty of fights where he's fought before Kyuubi's chakra ever came into play. It's why I hate the fact that the Kyuubi chakra is his main power when it's not his own and is still external help.
Or he can just get the Susano'o caster himself. Just be a true pimp and slip that hand in the Susano'o to pimpslap the caster.Quote:
Not exactly, as Sasuke would have trained himself even more. Orochimaru didn't even know that Sasuke had variations of chidori, so it's safe to assume Sasuke has done some training on his own away from Orochimaru or Kabuto's eyes, like how Naruto trained his SM FRS and not be caught by any gama.Quote:
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v17/c145/18.html and http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v40/c366/3.html would say otherwise.
Only worked on Orochimaru and Shi. Deidara was still able to fight, not sure if he actually did use genjutsu on A, and Danzou had Izanagi.Quote:
Not that much since he had two clones helping out. If Naruto was that good with chakra control, he wouldn't require a clone or another hand for rasengan. Minato, Kakashi, and Jiraiya can use rasengan with one hand, but Naruto needs two hands, at the least. Doesn't scream chakra control to me.Quote:
And he can throw it because of Sage Mode. It allows him to control chakra from afar.
Deva was technically dead, so he doesn't count. So back at you!Quote:
He'll probably be... Sasuke Itachi Uzumaki!Quote:
Why not, even as Edo Tensei? Theoretically, anything Kabuto thought of should have been usable for Nagato.
At least two fights, if you count Gaiden. And they probably would, since Sasuke has Sharingan and all.Quote:
And who'd rip the Kyuubi out of you? So far, the only one who can do that is Tobi.Quote:
You forget the part where Itachi and even Tobi have said Madara took Izuna's eyes because he was completely blind. It's only Mangekyo that causes blindness, while using any of its jutsu speeds up the rate of blindness. Tobi so far has not shown Mangekyo, while Kakashi probably has Eternal Mangekyo or is a special condition.Quote:
There was absolutely no price for using the Kyuubi back in Part I. It saved Naruto whenever he needed it or asked it to. It healed Naruto, increased his speed and strength, and gave him more chakra at no price. The only difference now is that Naruto stole Kyuubi's chakra, otherwise since Kyuubi is Naruto's friend, Naruto now has constant free power.Quote:
What side effect? Only side effects he's had were shown in Part II before Minato tightened the seal, and the side effect resulted because Naruto let it, according to him.Quote: