Miria...can considerer co-protagonist, and Priscilla, the antagonist
Miria has been a protagonist ever since the conflict in Pieta. She does in fact the lead the Ghosts. While Clare's story focuses on her revenge against Priscilla, Miria's story focuses on her revenge against the Organization. Yagi is going to converge those two story lines very shortly, imho.
Last edited by wickedsmile; January 29, 2012 at 12:57 AM.
yes both of them is the protagonist
for the same reason mentioned by wickedsmile
Clare = Protagonist of the Selfish Battle Against Priscilla Plot
Miria = Protagonist of the Unselfish Battle Against the Org Plot
err, I basically said what Wickedsmile had said, lol. I wrote this before looking at -reading- Wickedsmile's post, lol.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; January 23, 2012 at 11:48 AM.
hege...i wouldn't exactly say clare's path is selfish,she did see her only loved one get murdered before her eyes.
this is something we could all relate to...you guys call her a protagonist...i call her a justifier.
guess it's how you look at it...now adays you would let the"law"handle it.
but what if you were capable of doing things like a claymore...you get your justice first hand.
miria is doing this because she is disgusted with what the org did/does is about to do...kill'em all miria and let god sort them out
And... Clare murdered her only friend too... Elena, hehe. (And so did Miria too, with-of Hilda)
Oh, personally I understand and agree with your revenge=justice , but society+government doesn't, sighs
And as Balaliakai (from Black Lagoon) puts it (to Rock):
~ " 'Justice', I can't think of a word more loved by the people. But, without exercising your own strength, you merely seek the death of someone else, through the dirty work of others. The 'Justice' you speak of, smells pretty rotten to me."
though is not one's personal revenge-justice still selfish ?? So, I stand by calling Clare selfish (albiet her "weak"-kind-heartedness, to her self-loathing and chagrin, gets in her way, when others need her help, keeping her away from her mission of killing Priscilla).
Last edited by HegemonKhan; January 23, 2012 at 06:09 PM.
still you say selfish i say motivated...lol
Since when is selfish a bad word? *grins*
There'd be no motivation without selfishness! *grins*
well you know us americans...when someone else does bad it's selfishness.
but when you do bad...it's we were motivated/cohersed to do it...lol
we're all hypocrites...one time or the other...
Like Ikuno Shirataki, Clare's completely selfish in that shes self-interested because of her psychopathic personality. She couldn't ever be 'unselfish' like Miria or Raki even when she's caring for someone.
Clare can't really behave like the hero of a shounen manga whilst still being Clare. A few other people have noticed that Clare doesn't fit into categories like dark hero or villain protagonist either.
agree...that is why i say that in a world of claymores...
wouldn't you do the same?
clare's character is still very much human...it isn't her power that wins her comrades over.
it's her morality,comradery,and loyalty that drives her...selfish maybe...but definitely driven to exact justice.
in this case...very much justified.she witnessed a murder of someone trying to help/save their murderer...enough said.
priscella needs to die...no excuses for being young...only forgiveness...merc the org!!!
Its still important to realise Clare isn't a normal human character.
There's a reason why Yagi chose to use a psychopathic character he based upon Ikuno to explore the 'he who fights monsters' theme in Claymore, because the point is that there isn't a difference between the human and the monster halves (and refusing to recognise the false distinction was the source of Teresa's power). Just think back to the start of Claymore, when Clare first appears and readers are invited to wonder whether 'alien Clare' (as HK calls her then lol) has 'human' feelings at all, or is just a predator that loves killing because she's a 'monster'. If Miria or Helen had been the main character at the start of the manga, that wouldn't have worked.
And Priscilla has the same personality traits as Clare, if you see the two of them as different then you don't understand *sigh*...
Last edited by faintsmile1992; January 24, 2012 at 11:28 PM.
i think deep down everyone is selfish , for example Deneve (even though i dont really like her) shows strong will - will making it possible to lead bunch of guys with honesty and strength, for this purpose Miria seems too emotionally involved- too much - she does some pretty weird things
sacrificing yourself even for others when they want to help is still selfish and leading them by betrayal is just... rude
although it is interesting the similarity between clare and miria - yes they lost their loved ones but also were able to make friends yet they hold to the past - be it selfish or not , their strong will and determination to do what they set as their goal is astonishing at least and makes them worthy of most attention from readers
to be honest i liked Clare from the very beginning (where Raki asked her name (=it was not 'necessary to say')) as someone who keeps living on the inside and all outside actions is just executing plan to reach certain goal, emotionally closed person, damaged - reminds me of evangelion (Rei anyone?), i liek this
when i found out Clare is just revenge driven character i lost some of my interest
i liked Miria from the first moment too - strong on the outside and inside, bright and worthy of following but lately her actions also dissapointed me
that leads me to my most fav character Galatea - her absence of strong will (like Miria or Clare) is weighted out with her realistic sence, Miria and Clare are not so strong willed as stubborn, but i see Galatea as someone able to get over prejudices, emotions and act in her best interest, you could say she is intelligent, she left organization after finding out it is corrupted (= sence of what is rght) but didnt fight it - you could say she just looks out for herself but i see it merely as understanding the situation and not hopelessly sacrificing herself for 'greater good'
she also has her other qualities (appart from appearance) as sarcasm and calm
i think her special ability goes well with what i wrote about her and i dont think it is just a coincidence
back to topic:
based on screen time both are protagonists
based on story - only Clare it started with Clare, and the organization arch is not just Miria's story
Interestingly there was a thread on MAL about kuudere girls where someone pointed out that since Rei from Evangelion, there've really been two kuudere tropes. One of them is to the mystical girl who corresponds more with the schizotypal personality type and shamans, but the other is more like ultra-rational people with organic 'social brain deficits' represented by Clare and Yuki Nagato.
Clare is a nomadic, cat-like predator with cat-like feelings about others... like me... *mew*
---------- Post added January 26, 2012 at 03:51 AM ---------- Previous post was January 25, 2012 at 04:52 PM ----------
Interestingly I found this comment on the SociopathWorld blog today.
"My g/f was born without empathy. She was not abused. What is fascinating is how she seems to reverence my empathy. I am overly empathetic, not as a virtue, but as a maladaptive response. I had to be hyper alert, as a child. My overly empathetic nature was created by this, I am quite sure. It is a fear response. When I say that I wish I was not like this, she says, "Your emotions are beautiful. I never had the chance to have them"
Apart from the girlfriend here not being abused, doesn't this remind you of a Claymore pairing? Clare isn't the only non-empath attracted to caring partners, though I don't feel left out that I don't feel what other people take for granted. I am attracted to caring partners though, and I want to consume the caring they feel for me for its own sake, not thinking of turning it to my advantage (which I would though lol)... just their caring is 'useful' to me and Clare.
Last edited by faintsmile1992; January 25, 2012 at 12:00 PM.