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What are those spoilers in the OP? Are those from a kubo interview, or are those just theories from the OP?
You are missing my point and taking it as a diss to bleach. My point is that if bleach were to end after the Arrancar arc, ppl couldn't say "oh well ichigo hasn't become (blank) yet or done (blank) yet so it can't end."
Most everything you say about the soul king is based on what Aizen said about him. Aizen doesn't have a track record of being 100% correct. The point you make about soul society's corruption and how others are against the way they do things is a legit drive for other characters but not really for Ichigo. Ever since he rescued Rukia, the corruption of soul society hasn't really been a big issue for him. He's more likely to ignore soul society than to try to fix it (as we saw in the fullbringer arc).
Once again, you are adding a lot to the plot to build some epic Soul King vs Ichigo, but tbh, at this point its really meh to me. Maybe i'm just not seeing it, but as of now, there isn't much in it for me.
Last edited by WaveBossa; February 08, 2012 at 12:47 PM.
Pretty much agree with WaveBossa here.
I'm actually surprised he managed to climb this high without any effective "drive".
He needs a dream and not just wanting powers to protect... How much powers does he need to protect? There is no "end goal" here...
Ichigo has no clear goal as for "how far he wants to go".
Also this pretty much explains why Ichigo had to double arc save Rukia / Orihime, there simply isn't other ways to "motivate" Ichigo.... Nothing else seems to motivate him, except a few mentions of his battle desires/lust, but that's it.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he wouldn't do everything for his family / friends, however, he doesn't really have any other reasons, and it makes it kinda "hollow" from the readers point of view.
What is important here is not only to get into Ichigo's emotions, but also the readers emotions. Ichigo having a dream will affect the readers emotions, like with One Piece and Hokage. But wanting to protect his family is a bit dull and old, while noble and very sweet hearted, it doesn't get to the reader in the same way, it's weak, it doesn't hype the reader.
Ichigo concluding this arc/Bleach without any "real" drive is therefore really annoying to me, it's one reason why Bleach will never reach top 5 in my opinion, the art work really is pulling it up, cause the story is... well you know =_="
Ichigo better get a reason to get strong now, cause it's another major unrealistic aspect of Bleach... Even manga's can get too "unrealistic" in the end, in terms of story realism. (Not talking about the fantasy world, but the story itself).
I wonder, Kubo will probably hide Ichigo's possible desire to become the strongest till the very end of the manga. I disagree with Kubo's method here, although the manga direction looks interesting.
Ichigo needs a clear effective goal, especially for the reader to have something to connect with. Right now, I'm just enjoying the artwork, othervice just with for the ride.
I wonder if Kubo can pull this arc off right, Ichigo is way to similar to Orihime to be positive about it, and I'm probably gonna get flamed for saying that
I understand what you guys mean, but Ichigo's only goal as always been to become the strongest so that the can protect his friends.
In part 1, he protected Rukia.
In part 2, he protected Orohime.
And in part 3, he will most likely protect Ishida. (The last chapter pretty much confirmed that the last arc will be about the Quincies).
It's no "end goal", but it's still a goal.
As I already said, he has a deep reason why he wants to kill as many hollows as he can and those close to him, and that motivation is tied with the characters and the story. The setting is in the real world so there's nothing "realistic" about having some sort of real goal set in stone for real life. If the reader needs some kind of end goal, even if it has no depth or relation to the setting, story or characters just so they can form some sort of superficial conection to the character then too bad for them.
I don't think anyone should jump to conclusions about what Ichigo will do in the last arc. Theres more to this arc than just the Quincy's...as Kubo said himself, the enemies start out small in number and then become numerous. Ichigo might discover something about the Soul King or Soul Society and have a reason for himself to fight against them that isn't simply protecting things. I think these Quincy's will probably die long before this arcs conclusion, probably by the Zero Squad.
Also, I don't have a problem with Ichigo's goal being to protect people. His goal is justified based on his past and not wanting to see other people experience something similiar. Also, do "goals" really bring depth to a character? I mean Naruto wanting to be Hokage makes sense. But Luffy going around shouting he wants to be Pirate King.....wheres the "depth" in that goal? Luffy wants to be Pirate King because he wants to be Pirate King. And the author hasn't done much storywise revealing info about where One Piece is.
Let's take another popular anime/manga, YYH. Did Yusuke really have a goal? No, not really. In fact, close to the end Yusuke lost his resolve to fight once he realized he didn't really have a reason to fight or anyone to protect anymore.
Goku's goal was always either collect the Dragonballs or save Earth. Just because a character has a goal doesn't mean he's deep, or to be more precise deep because of his goal.....same goes for a character who lacks a goal. Plus, lately it seems authors take a long, long time before even having their main characters pursue their goal, or make any progress towards accomplishing it.
The most important is having some sort of depth to the motivation and maybe a goal depending on the setting, not a goal and then some/no depth.
I'll post whatever I deem appropriate unless a mod tells me otherwise. Seeing as you don't fit that description, if you find my post a waste of time or any discussion that may ensue as a result then don't read it.
I'm really gonna miss Bleach. Even though the last arc was horrible in my opinion I'm sad to see it ending. Hopefully, it is long and explains all the unanswered questions. I read/watched Bleach since I was a kid. It makes me sad to see part of my childhood end
Ichigo's goal of "protection" does sound like it'll bite him in the ass. Since the Quincy's will be involved it's unknown to what Ishida's main allegiance will be with, he's made it a fact to note that he isn't really friends with SS but more of a grudging alliance to help Orihime and to a point even Rukia since he did see the injustice being done to her even if she was a shinigami. His father is against his connections to SS so he might be forced to turn away from his friends and join the last few Quincy's to seek revenge against SS. Because of this there prolly will be a lot of chapters between Ichigo's and Ishida's father as to things they've kept secret til now and why they've been so civil with one another.
The most interesting question to everything will be why did the Quincy's wait til now to strike, you would think that if they had the ability to enter SS they would've done it while they were to busy dealing with Aizen but apparently they were "kind" enough to wait til now to strike. Though it could be that very arc that allowed Ishida's father to have the time to regroup with his old comrades and setup a plan to overrun SS. Since SS was to busy dealing with their own Civil War and HM they wouldn't have had the time to notice that there were Quincy's that were still alive and plotting against them. My guess with everything though is that the Quincy are sick of SS's superiority so in an attempt to knock them down a peg they will destroy the balance between the two worlds and find a way to make them rise to the top so that they can become the superior group of people.
To be honest what confuses me here is the timeline of the war. We have the title of the arc and the fact that yamamoto failed to kill the quincy king to suggest this war happened 1000 years ago. Yet, we know there also was a quincy war 200 years ago and ushida's line of quincy are related to that one. So should we assume there have been 2 wars? What was the relation between the quincy 200 years ago and the ones they are fighting now?
What I was thinking was that the quincy destroyed 200 years ago were remmants or descendants of the ones they are fighting now. Basically, there was the war 1000 years ago and the survivors lived on and left descendants who learned quincy arts. If the vandereich leader is a king the logically he must have a kingdom of sorts. Perhaps 1000 years ago his army went to war with SS and the descendants of the citizens of his kingdom became the quincy which were annihilated 200 years ago. Of course, SS would have defeated their military however even 1000 years back mobilizing against a bunch of civilians would be something to hesitate about if the actual threat has been defeated.
---------- Post added at 04:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:24 PM ----------
Another thing which I forgot to comment on is that the quincy symbol ishida uses and the quincy symbol the new guys use are mildly different. Perhaps an indication of the quincy from 200 years ago being related to the ones we see now but not quite the same?
nice thread. I voted the second option because I think it won't last for more than 15 volumes.but it will be the best arc,imo.