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Yukimura > Fuji/Fuwa, Therefore Yukimura > Irie
You did say Yukimura would beat both Fuji and Irie (which, throwing in Irie is pretty silly considering how talented he is).
Welcome to every single person in 1st string. Including Irie.
Fuwa is fodder.Quote:
I don't argue against this point. I am arguing against you saying Yukimura would beat Irie.Quote:
Wow, you really need to understand the way manga works. There is no way in hell Yukimura is beating Irie 6-1 or 6-2. ALL POT TECHNIQUES are the same. There is no difference between Yips, Rai, TmK, etc. ANY technique in this series has ONLY and EVERYTHING to do with ability level. For example:Originally Posted by LetalHawk
If Sanada is level 10, and Yukimura is level 11, and Tezuka is level 8, then that means Rai will always work on Tezuka, and never work on Yukimura. It doesn't matter what technique it is, or how broken and overpowered it is. If someone is at a greater ability level, no technique will work for very long (if at all). That's the way manga works, for the purpose of growth and suspense. If Yukimura is level 11, and Irie is level 14, Yips would NOT work on Irie. His overall skill level is too high in comparison to Yukimura's. Sanada's ability level exceeded Yukimura's when he obtained Black Aura, which is why he instantly broke out of Yips. He's too good for that now. It is simple logic, really. Unless Yukimura achieved a new level of skill, I don't see him doing anything against a serious Irie.
Again, depends on ability level.Quote:
Im saying this coz Singles wise, he would defeat Mouri and Ochi.
It would be a good match between Yukimura and Irie. Thats what we have been shown by Konomi thus far.
But going by evidence wise, Yukimura should beat Irie. Since Yukimura is unstoppable w/out an Aura against him which is what we have been shown.
Irie has no aura... As awesome as he is. Although we do know that he pissed all over Atobe and wasnt even at full power.
Man. Its tough. for me that is.
Current Fuji would probably win against all of them. Even Mouri and Ochi dont look like they would defeat Fuji singles wise haha.
No proof. Your theory makes sense but I still think Irie will briefly get yipped. Although his mind fuck tennis which is so entertaining would easily get him out of it.
(I dont feel the anime did him justice against Atobe. They didnt even put emphasis on the ''JUST KIDDING'' moment perhaps fav. moment of the series).
Last edited by Airgrimes; March 26, 2012 at 03:47 PM.
Sure it depends on ability level, but, when the best MS in the camp right now activates TnK, Irie won't stand a chance. Echizen's TNK shots at full power are the fastest shots. Mach would be childs play for TnK Echizen to return, thus remember that nobody saw the first serve Echizen hit against Yukimura while in TnK.
If Echizen, now, can activate it willingly, and hits as strong as he can with TnK, Irie won't be able to even react. Or at least be running around the court until he gets exhausted quickly.
So to sum up, Shin TnK Echizen >> Irie.
Last edited by LetalHawk; March 26, 2012 at 04:09 PM.
When you look at the way Yips works against Echizen/Sanada and how it works against Fuwa, you will notice that both Echizen and Fuwa had visions (Sanada probably had too, but it wasn't shown). The difference being that Echizen (and probably Sanada as well) saw visions of themselves losing, which results in them struggling and eventually activating TnK and BA respectevily, whereas Fuwa sees himself breaking through Yukimura's tennis and collapses, thinking that he's won and showing no resistance.
In other words, whereas with the old version of Yips the opponents tried to break out of it, the new version makes them think they've already won and so they stop trying.
No, I'm saying IF Irie is at a higher ability level than Yukimura, then Yips will not work on him. The same way Rai didn't work on Yukimura.Quote:
You're acting like just because you have TMnK, it means you're automatically at a higher skill level than everyone in the series. Not so. Had Echizen used TMnK against Kazuya BEFORE he improved to be able to hit 10 balls, he would have lost. Kazuya was expanses better than Echizen at the time. Also, if you believe TMnK puts you at a fixed ability level no matter who achieves it, then you believe Tezuka with TMnK is on the same level as Echizen with TMnK, which I do not believe they are. So just because someone has TMnK does not mean they are instantly the best player in the world. It has everything to do with your base skill level first.Quote:
Probably because once he see an offensive move once he can return anything. that's just part of of his special skills. technically rai should be too fast to return, that's the way the manga writer wants yukimura's strength to be.
Yukimura walks over Sanada w/out Black Aura...
Aura clearly means everything here.
Tokugawa is amazing but lets not get carried away with hype. Look at No.s 11-19, Kaji, 1st Court, all examples of hype that wasnt that great.
Im not saying Tokugawa is as bad as them since we know he is amazing, but TMnK!Ryoma would defeat him as far as we have been shown.
Tokugawa couldnt return Cool Drive first time while Yukimura did so with ease. So therefore I believe its fair to say TMnK!Ryoma would defeat Tokugawa.
Im saying it gives you a plot powered amazing boost. A boost that Im afraid Tokugawa is likely unable to reach.
Tokugawa, Irie, Oni, Byoudouin, Ryoga and Tanegashima cant be that good. Otherwise whats the point in hinting there will be Overseas tournaments later in the series?
I believe TMnK!Tezuka > TMnK!Ryoma although the 10ball improvement may change that. Never said TMnK makes everyone the same.
Konomi has made it clear by saying only Nanjiro could activate it in terms of Japanese players.
It gives you a boost. Not a fixed limit. I also didnt say it makes you best in the world, but immediately puts you to the highest section of the Tier list in terms of the Japanese School players.
If your reading the manga correctly you would know that if Ryoma hits a serve that nobody in the court was able to see, then its clear how amazing the boost TMnK provides.
We have no reason to believe Tokugawa can defeat TMnK!Tezuka although when watching him, he and Tanegashima were relaxed compared to the rest of the camp. But it was acknowledged that Tezuka was greatly holding back.
---------- Post added at 11:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:28 AM ----------
Yukimura is probably the strongest in terms of power. Altough his appearance doesn't hint that, he returned Yama Arashi and Rai, so there's no power shot that he can't return. Pretty sure he could return Byodouin's serve.
yea auras make the player win, but its the base skills that count. if tezuka vs ryoma both in Perfection mode, tezuka will win. because I speculate perfection mode is a multiplier for base skills. tezuka stronger than echizen w/o perfection and with perfection face to face. now matching someone w/o perfection vs non perfection mode mean one person will overpowr the other. i 'm writing perfection as tnk.
so when u compare yukmura vs rymoa in perfection mode, yukimura still stronger due to base skills. now who won the match of course ryoma did , he got a boost with tnK to over come his limits.
also i theorize that's why ryoma doesn't want to use that made unles he has to and that he can indeed acivate it if he wants. He probably wants to up his base skills. speed, strength, stamina, endurance, etc. can't relie on TnK forever.
EDIT: I already posted a couple reasons why fuji woudl lose but another is because fuji is not a top player in teh pot 1 series.
atobe, tazuke, sanada, yukimura, and echizen are top tier players. fuji is not in that catagory and Irie owns atobe pretty good so if fuji not in the top or can defeat any of the top players no way he can win vs Irie, maybe close loss but he cant win.
Irie would sense fuji's thoughts on the new counters fuji makes and Irie would just counter them so fast, since he knows how they work.
Last edited by ashore; March 27, 2012 at 04:56 PM.
Your putting Atobe with Tezuka, Sanada and Yukimura?
Dont do that. Atobe is not out of Fuji's tier. At least Nationals!Atobe was not out of Nationals!Fuji's tier.
But Yukimura, Tezuka and Sanada are without doubt the best. Just the flash back of the 3 of them Three Years Prior To The Storyline hints that.
Fuji IS a Top player in the PoT 1 series.
---------- Post added at 04:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:31 PM ----------
Are you saying Tezuka > TMnK!Ryoma? (I hope not)
I may have jumped the gun on atobe by making him the level of sanada, yukimura, and tezuka.
his frozen world may have taken out sanada. but thanks to no good character opinions, like yukimura, who told sanada that he would have lost , even though it wasn't true. the fact that atobe was struggling to sanada and always trying to beat tezuka could means he's not top tier. I just recall people saying atobe was at national level. no one says fuji is.
atobe may not be at the top,so I'd put him close to fuji's level.
Last edited by ashore; March 27, 2012 at 06:19 PM.