As for the Tobi's argument multiple factors can be used:
1-He was already holding the Kyuubi in genjutsu so another genjutsu? Its a little absurd.
2-He does not use genjutsu in the middle of his fights, he does not even have MS to use tsukiyomi like Sasuke and Itachi can. Even vs Konan and he used genjutsu at the end. Hell how about Danzou's bodyguards? Same story.
PS. If you whant to keep it civil don't call other people oppinions as dumb and that they suck and so on. You asked (or so i belive as your OP is not stated what you wanted to say) that you whant a list wih people that can take on Minato and even take him down then i posted that. If you don't agree that is one thing, starting to state my oppinion sucks is another.
Also i can make a case for all of those on how they can win, can you about Minato? For instance how is he damaging Raikage?
^ why did tobi who genjutsu is about as strong as we've seen retreat, not by choose it ruin his plan, so tell me why he retreat if he could have just as easily genjutsu minato.
I see your post about tobi although he had lost control of kyuubi so to save his plan he could have dealt with minato than but anyway.
which raikage are you talking about if it's the one with the ultimate defense I would agrue he would in a similar way naruto did.
I would say your agrument is flawed because the 1st hokage has not shown any genjutsu feat that we've seen, we just know he beat madra but are you willing to tell me he would loose to sasuke?
and to me tobi normal genjutsu seems more powerful than itachi's ms after all it ended konan's life
and outside of kakashi passing out or tobi (who minato beat) genjutsu has never knock out anyone, it certainly place ppl in bad positions but it's never ended a fight, unless you count oro vs sasuke for control of sasuke's body.
Last edited by sylvesterrahim; March 26, 2012 at 11:41 AM.
Tobi at that point was already injured. Also why he chosed to leave? Don't know and its not really relevant. Tobi was not showed as a master genjutsu dude using that on the fly in combat, Sasuke and Itachi have been with clear feats AND they have MS genjutsu. Now you keep going on and on with Tobi show me Tobi's feat in genjutsu in the middle of a fight. Tobi has crep ones at best, only when Konan was crippled and exhausted is when he used genjutsu.
The last Raikage, the one he had to fight in the forest with Bee. Tell me how he can damage current Raikage.
As long as we don't know how he was able to do so then YES. We actualy do have a somewhat of a counter from him in the form of wood clones and he at least has a super OP genjutsu in that total darkness stuff.Quote:
Oh this is so wrong... First off of course Itachi MS genjutsu is LEAPS AND BOUNDS above that. He can control time and can't be broken even by outside interferance, Itachi genjutsu is on a completely diferent level... Then Tobi just stated that her life is going to end when the genjutsu ends... this could mean that he is going to kill her with whatever tool when that is done. You need to torture the victim over a long time to give him enough mental damage so they die... A few seconds or minutes is not going to do shit. Genjutsu can't kill like that, only using it like Itachi and torturing the victim over 3 days or whatever would it do that.Quote:
I do however think ppl put too much stock in genjutsu as it's ended one maybe two fights total.
we going have to disagree about tobi's genjutsu, I mean he has done some pretty impressive stuff with a normal sharingan
Last edited by sylvesterrahim; March 26, 2012 at 11:54 AM.
Thats how it works:
If you want to make a claim character A is going to beat character B, first thing you need to do is to make a complete list of character B's offensive and defensive abilities. Then you need to take a look at character A' abilities and find answers for how he's going to deal with every single one of character B's abilities.
If you run into some ??? during this process, then you have a BIG problem.
Don't like that? Well thats too bad... I'd also love to claim Tsunade is going to beat Raikage, because I happen to like her while I dislike the latter... but thats not going to happen any time soon, because she hasn't shown any answers for Raikage's speed.
Thats just the way it is and it makes sense... so deal with it.
Last edited by LnDRash; March 26, 2012 at 11:58 AM.
Fact of the matter is, even disreguarding genjutsu, Minato lacks the offensive power to defeat many ninja, mainly Kabuto, Hashirama, 3rd Raikage, Naruto, etc. So until he shows something other than a Rasengan or a wind powered kunai, he simply can't defeat many ninja because he lacks the ability to kill them.
Even the 4'th Raikage and i have no idea how he is damaging him trough that cloack... That shield was showed to be able to take SM rasengan from Naruto and keep Amaterasu away for some time.
^ I dont understand where you guys get this idea he can't hurt them, 3rd raikage is a problem but do we think he wouldn't have been able to come up with what naruto came up with? he already has the reflexes for it.
and holy shit if we not going to believe the 4th raikage when he says minato is "stronger" and he didn't think anyone would surpase him who do we believe?
Last edited by sylvesterrahim; March 26, 2012 at 12:08 PM.
Let's use the 4'th Raikage (last one, curent one) how is he going to damage him? Rasengan? Naruto tried SM Rasengan and that shield was able to take it, a kunai swing(like Minato used vs Raikage in the Manga)? LOL no.
At the very least questionable...
Naruto got a fair amount of informations on Sandaime Raikage thanks to Dodai and the Hachibi.
Minato isn't going to have such benefits.
Right and Nagato stated he is God and Konan was sttated to be an angel of the Lord... You actualy think Madara, Tobi, The Sage, Nagato and so on are not stronger then him? He was just refering to Minato's speed.Quote:
^ not a problem, he figured out tobi fast he would do the same to the raikage, it was said after seeing something once he knew the strength and weakness of it.
Stronger? yes they have by far more powerful offensive jutsu I was just making the claim that minato is like the joker in the deck his abilities allow him to compete with just about anybody.
^ I am sorry i missed your point, naruto needed sage mode so he can sense the punch and react in time, I believe minato has the speed and reflexs it takes to finish the raikage might take some time but the fact is minato has options RAIKAGE HAS NO WAY WHATS SO EVER TO TOUCH MINATO. weather minato will have to tag his elbow and than attack or whatever but i can paint how he would win, now you tell me how the 3rd raikage does anything to minato.
To me attack first type are the best possible fight for minato, they going to get burn, Minato will have trouble with like your Itachi type not just cause of genjutsu
Last edited by sylvesterrahim; March 26, 2012 at 12:32 PM.